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jqe1976
Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2003
Posts: 104
Location: Brick, NJ Gsp Exit 91
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 Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:13 pm Post subject: shift plate installation |
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| getting ready to install my new shift plate. I read the bentleys, and I was wondering if the 90 degree offset has to be perfect if so what's the trick to getting it perfect, and any other tip are greatlyappreciated...Joe |
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TeamSpatula
Samba In The Rain
Joined: February 03, 2004
Posts: 5221
Location: WNC
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 5:02 am Post subject: |
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If you're talking about the plate that holds the shifter down, and has that lip, it's pretty easy to adjust. Just bolt it down, and try to shift through the gears. IF they aren't all smooth, loosen it, adjust it, and try again.
Also, before you take the old one out, look at it very carefully as far as orientation, loaction, etc. You may want to use a sharpie to mark edges just as a help for putting the new one in correctly.
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Amskeptic
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 8586
Location: All Across The Country
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:31 pm Post subject: Re: shift plate installation |
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| jqe1976 wrote: |
so what's the trick to getting it perfect,
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Greetings from Williams AZ. Before you remove the current stop plate, shift the car into second gear while you can still shift it and test to make sure that it is indeed second gear. Disassemble shifter and install new stop plate with grease all over all wear surfaces. I am sure that you will enjoy trying to reassemble with that spring and grease and boot falling down the shifter as you attempt to align the base plate holes and the shifter ball into the front shift rod. Tighten the base plate bolts to loose but touching the base plate. The 90* deal is not so critical as your understanding what you really are after. What you are really after is that the shifter rod and base plate are exactly in the center of their side-to-side travel (you are still in second gear here, remember) Slide the base plate in the bolt slots while you move the shifter from side-to-side, then pick the exact center of the travel allowed. Side-to-side is one direction of adjustment. The other direction of adjustment is fore-and-aft. The fore-and-aft adjustment is made by sliding the base plate fore and aft in the elongated slot holes so that the shifter has a little slop in second gear as you wiggle the gear shift in second gear, don´t let it slip out of second gear. ( this adjustment you may need to revisit because you won´t know how you did until it is all bolted down and you test first and third and fourth. If you find that first and third feel "tight" when engaged, you will need to move the base plate forward a bit vice versa for second and fourth) OK. Base plate is correct side-to-side and fore-and-aft in second gear. Now the important adjustment: the stop plate is responsible for preventing you from moving the shifter to the left of the first/second slot unless you push down on the shifter. Since the shifter pivots in that ball joint inside the base plate, the lock-out tab for reverse is on the right side of the base plate. Your base plate bolts are still somewhat loose now you shove the stop plate sideways against the shifter shoulder that is hidden inside the base plate with a flat blade screwdriver. There is a handy little cutout in the base plate so you can reach the stop plate with your screwdriver. The stop plate pretty much defines how wide your first/second "gate" is going to be, so don´t push too hard. Now tighten up the base plate bolts. Git in the driver´s seat KEEP ENGINE OFF and shift into first. Nice little fore-and-aft slop? Shift into second, same bit'o slop? Now shift into third and bring it back into second as though you were doing a quick shift. Start engine with clutch in, does car go forward when you release the clutch just a bit? Put car into neutral. Now push down on shifter bring left still pushing then down into reverse still pushing. Does car go backwards when you release the clutch just a bit? Yer dun.Ç¿
( this computer has spanish all over it)
Colin  |
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jqe1976
Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2003
Posts: 104
Location: Brick, NJ Gsp Exit 91
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| O.K. i'll try it & let you know how it turned out! thanks colin |
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Adventurewagen
Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2003
Posts: 1583
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| this adjustment you may need to revisit because you won´t know how you did until it is all bolted down |
I still haven't had a chance to drop the tranny and check the shift linkage and shift rod ball joint, but after reading colin's post from the quote above Im starting to think if I really did get the stick back into the correct position. Maybe I don't need to drop the engine and tranny? I seem to be partially stuck in 4th gear. I can move the stick into other positions, but nothing actually seems to shift or grab the gear. Could my problems all be related to my poor attempt at lining up the stop plate??? it seemed to me like there was not much play in the plate.
Is there a way I can get to the starting point of being in 2nd and then run through this test? The bus is in the street and Im going to have to wait to get it towed somewhere better before I can drop the engine. If I can get it working without dropping the tranny all the better. |
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Amskeptic
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 8586
Location: All Across The Country
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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Greetings from Medina, New York @ 40º with a cold rain.
Emergency fubar Shifter Adjustment:
Your gearshift is all over the floor and you don't know what gear you are in or need to be in.
Go under bus.
Get oriented or this will be a mess.
Front means front of car.
Left means driver's side U.S.
Your shift rod sticking out of the front of the transaxle is towards the front of the car. If your coupler is bolted up, good, put your ViseGrips on the coupler, the jaws will spread sufficiently if it is a good size ViseGrip.
We are going to be doing an IQ test here.
If you shift into 1st or 3rd gear, you know the shift rod pushes backwards.
If you shift into 2nd or 4th gear, you know the shift rod pulls forward.
But which way does the shift rod TWIST between 1-2 and 3-4 and R?
Ha ha, that's a good one.
We don't care. . .yet.
To help you shift the transmission with ViseGrips, I recommend that you release the ebrake on a level floor so you can rock the car a bit back and forth to help the long-suffering synchros grab the gear of your choice.
Grab the ViseGrips and try to get a full pull and a full push. There should be three discrete positions that you feel as the detents detent. Find the MIDDLE detent. Only have two detents? Twist the ViseGrips to the right and try again. Only when you have three discrete detents in the fore-and-aft push/pull and select the MIDDLE will you be in neutral to find the gate you want, R or 1-2 or 3-4. Now twist your ViseGrips to see what your full range of twist actually is. Did you notice that your ViseGrips are hanging down? This is important to know, so we can figure out what "go left" means, and "go right" means. Because the shifter pivots in a ball socket, and the front shift rod has another socket, people can get confused, but we are not going to get confused. If you twist the ViseGrips left, the rod turns clockwise, fully clockwise is reverse gate. Fully counter-clockwise is 3-4. Since we want 2nd, we have to find the center gate. We have only one difference between the R gate and the 1-2 gate to help you properly distinguish the 2nd gear slot. Correct, only the reverse gate will not allow you to push into the transmission as far as 1 and 3 allowed you to, because it doesn't have a gear to go into when the shift rod pushes back. So move your ViseGrips fully to the left in the MIDDLE DETENT, release a tad, then push forward. That will put the transmission in 2nd gear. Test by turning your engine with a wrench, it should be able to move the car forward a bit, unlike 4th. Play until you know your gates and detents well. Now go do the stop plate adjustment. If ever you cannot grab 4th, particularly with an 091 transmission, you can do the ViseGrips test to see if it is the sloppy transmission versus the sloppy shifter linkage.
Colin
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Adventurewagen
Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2003
Posts: 1583
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Excellent!
Now if the rain will ever stop I might make it out to do the vise grip test. It sounds confusing, but as you said I will not get confused. 
Thanks as always for the help. Just excellent! |
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Adventurewagen
Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2003
Posts: 1583
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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So after some fiddling I figured out the twisting part and got it into second gear. Kind of tough while under the bus rocking it back and forth with my foot and working on the shift rod.
Anyway, bazaam! and I got the car shifting again!!! It goes reverse and into first. Im kind of worried taking it out around town just yet though. Third is still a little wonky. Its always been a little wierd, it will go beyond where it should go into gear. I think its my stop plate.
I think I may still need to adjust the stop plate. Any more comments on this? I think I just need a new stop plate and some of the plastic gaskets along the shift coupling. |
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Blaubus
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2003
Posts: 5153
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| there is also a plastic bushing at the front end of the shift rod 211-711-197, (two bucks) that tightens it up a lot. |
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Amskeptic
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 8586
Location: All Across The Country
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurewagen wrote: |
So after some fiddling I figured out the twisting part and got it into second gear.
Anyway, bazaam! and I got the car shifting again!!!
Third is still a little wonky, it will go beyond where it should go into gear. |
You are rapidly becoming a professional, so I shall communicate with you as a professional. If 3rd alone is weird in its tall reach, but 1st is normal, can that be the stop plate? Test all gears for both reach and that subtle fore/aft slop at the gear shift whilst in gear. Are 2nd and 4th both sort of tight? Are 1st and 3rd both sort of long and lots of fore/aft slop? If both are, then moving the entire base plate backwards a tad will help bring the forward shifting gears back a bit, and introduce a little room in 2nd and 4th. If 3rd alone is weird, then we have to ask what might be going on inside the transmission. Do, of course double-check your front shift rod bushing as noted by Dansvan, but it would not be responsible for a tall 3rd, it would give you a lazy side-to-side with missed shifts into adjacent gates.
Colin
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Adventurewagen
Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2003
Posts: 1583
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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Against my better judgement I took the shiftplate off again to look at where I was when in 3rd. First I did move the shift plate back a little thinking that might do it, but it made shifting into 2nd and 4th a bit sloppy. So I popped the whole stick back out.
Anyway, it appears to be the stop plate. I pulled it, filed a groove that had formed out of it and bent it in a bit more. 3rd is not nearly as bad, you really have to push to get it to pop beyond where it should be. Im just going to need to get a new stop plate some time.
As for the shift rod bushing, I checked that. Low and behold the old one had lost a few of the little wing pieces. I pulled on it and the whole thing cracked in half. I guess Im going to need to get another one of those. My shifting is still fine and the side to side motion isn't much worse than it already was. |
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