Alignment Questions

[Woreign]

The front tires on my 64 have excessive wear on the outside tread. I checked, and car has too much toe-in (about an inch!) I know how to adjust the toe, but I want to know which side I need to adjust to straighten the steering wheel. The car pulls slightly to the right (to drive straight, the steering wheel is turned slightly to the left).

Also, I'm concerned about the camber. Right now, the wheels are angled in at the bottom ( \ / ). Could this be due to the excessive toe-in? Also, are the camber shims visible from the outside? I don't see any and I don't know if the PO installed them correctly or at all.

Thanks!

[Hotrodvw]

Take it to an alignment shop. You just can't get it as close at home.
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'67 Sunroof
Eric

78x94 with IDA's....oober fun

Horsepower is an addiction........Addictions cost
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Hose & Fittings

[pbenn]

Link pin front wheels are slightly cambered normally, but not too much. There's lots of pictures.

Caster shims are for caster, and sit behind the bottom beam of your front suspension, holding it off the pan bulkhead slightly, which you can see with a flashlight. They look like 1/2 main bearing shells.

[drscope]

Has the car been lowered? Narrow beam? or all stock?

On to alignment. Pull off the left front wheel so you can get a good look at the steering coupler. (or pull out the fuel tank)

On the bottom end of the steering shaft there is a split area where the pinch clamp holds the column to the spud on the rubber coupler.

Get in the car and with the wheels straight, turn the steering wheel all the way one way while counting the number of turns. Then go the other way. Then turn the wheel so it is in the middle of the two directions. (don't worry about the steering wheel being straight at this point. (it should be, but if it has been taken off, or the column has been taken off at the bottom, it may not be straight.

Now go back under and look at the bottom end of the shaft. The split in the shaft should be straight up.

If it is off by a little,

Turn the steering shaft until this split is straight UP. Now go check to see if your steering wheel is straight. If it isn't, you should pull the steering wheel off and relocate it so that split in the column is up when the wheel is straight.

Keep in that over 40 years things get taken apart and maybe not put back correctly.

If the split is off by a lot, you need to take the shaft off of the spud on the coupler. Then center the steering box and put the shaft onto the spud so the split in the shaft is straight up. Then make sure the steering wheel is straight and if not, fis it so it is straight when the split in the shaft is straight up and the steering box is centered.

Then put the wheel back on and drop it back down on the ground.

Now you can measure your front toe with the steering wheel correctly positioned.

If you have 4 jack stands (or something similarly heavy) you can "string" the car.

Put a stand at each corner of the car a few feet ahead and behind the car. Now tie a string from the right rear stand to the right front stand and do the same for the left rear to left front.

Pull the stands out until the string is tight. Then move the strings in toward the car as close as you can get. Sometimes fenders and hub caps get in the way.

Go to one side and measure in from the string to the sidewall or edge of the rim on the rear side. Then measure from the string to the same spot on the front side. If you adjust your string so it is the same distance from the front as it is on the rear of the wheel, you will be able to see which way the string is pointing. And you will be able to see which wheel has more toe in or out. Then do your alignment and adjust from there.

If you stop and think about things and how it works, you will probably be able to do a much better job then most alignment shops. Most of the guys who knew how to do an alignment on a swing axle VW on an alignment rack quit or died a long time ago.
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Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch!

[Woreign]

Well, I re-adjusted the toe-in to 1/16" (should be a little more with people in the car). Several months ago, I made the mistake of setting the toe-in with the wheels off the ground I now know better...

I checked the camber after adjusting the toe, and one side is more perpendicular than the other. Any cause for alarm? The tire that is more perpendicular actually has more wear than the other.

I'll see how it drives next week, not that it drove that poorly before. I pretty much wore the tires out, but they still have some tread left. I'll be moving to Italy in a few months and I'll be taking the Beetle with me. I'm thinking that the correct sized tires might be more readily available in Europe than they are here in the States. Maybe I'll get a better deal?

By the way, the suspension is stock.

[drscope]

Camber is set with the link pin shims. You may have the shims in the wrong place. Or something might be bent.

First try checking the shim numbers and location against the shim chart. If things still don't camber up right, then you may have a bent trailing arm or even a bent beam. Usually its just somebody didn't have or read the shim chart and got the count wrong on how many go where.

I don't know if tires will be easier to find or not over there. Fiats mostly used 13" tires and other then Fiats, most of the vehicles are Vespas at least in the cities.
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Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch!

[Woreign]

Can you see the shims from the outside, or are they concealed inside the knuckle? And what's involved in removing the pins to count the shims? I'm familiar with the ball joint suspension, not the K/L.

[drscope]

You can't see them.

You need to take off the wheel, drum and then remove the backing plate from the spindle. THERE IS NO NEED TO OPEN THE BRAKE LINE OR REMOVE THE BRAKE SHOES! Just take out the 3 bolts that hold the backing plate to the spindle and pull the backing plate away from the spindle and let it hang, or tie it up out of the way.

This way you don't have to reinstall the shoes or bleed the brakes when you are done.

Then on the ends of the trailing arm you will see a pinch bolt. Take off the nut and remove the bolt.

On the inboard side, the link pin will have a square end. On the out board side, it has a big (over an inch) round head.

I use a 3/8 x 4 or 6 inch extension & hammer and tap the pins out from the inboard side. OR, you can just use a heavy soft hammer on the casting between the pins on the inboard side and drive the knuckle off that way.

The shims get put on the link pins. Old stuff had 10 shims on each pin. newer stuff had 8 shims and the a square edged washer sort of thing that covered a small o-ring. this square edged washer sort of thing takes the place of 2 shims. You should have the 8 shim/washer set up on your car.

With the steering knuckle removed, you need to get the shim chart and then using a straight edge, measure the distance of the two faces of the trailing arms. Then look on the chart and put the shims where they need to go for that measurement.

If your arms don't fall within the tolorance of the chart, something is bent.

This is one reason why it is VERY important when narrowing a king & link pin beam to get things right. If you have your tubes at the wrong length relative to each other, it will be way off the shim chart and there is no way to correctly set camber.

If you don't have a copy of Muir's idiot book, you should try to get one before blasting off to Italy! It will really help you a lot. And unless you speak fluent Italian, you may not be able to find good help or info locally.

of course, the Samba reaches Italy too, so you won't be totally disconected!
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Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch!

[Woreign]

Thanks Doc! Just the information that I needed. I already downloaded the shim chart. Also a good opportunity to clean all the greasy gunk around the knuckle...

And as long as I have the Samba, I don't need any books!

[Russ Wolfe]

[Woreign]

My trailing arms had an offset of 7mm. The chart indicated 3 shims inboard and 5 shims outboard, above and below. However, I was one shim short. So I removed one to make it even: 3 inboard and 4 outboard. Afterwards, I checked the camber and it is more inline with the passenger-side wheel, but both still have a slight positive camber. Is this normal?

[glutamodo]

Dang, both sides at 7mm, that's pretty good! I've only ever seen that once before (the beam I put in my 62 last year)

You were missing a shim? I'd get one and put it in there. (I got some extras if you need them) You said you removed one, so you ended up with the 7 on the top and 7 on the bottom then? That should be "OK" - just remember that with those shims, you are setting up the link pins so the mate up squarely with the trailing arms, not correcting for camber.

With "spot on" trailing arms and the shims correctly installed, the camber should be right. If it's not, then it's got to be something's up with the steering knuckle

How are you checking your camber, by the way? (I use one of those tools you see in the factory books)

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/tools/gallerypics/245.jpg

-Andy

[KTPhil]

Slight positive camber is proper in front. Make sure it is even side to side or you can get squirrely steering when braking hard, among other handling oddities.

[Woreign]

I checked the camber with a bubble level and a straight piece of wood that I cut a notch in to clear the hub and rests against the wheel rim . Crude, but it works. The bubble extends about 1/3 past the centering line on the level.

While reassembling the hub, I was reminded of how much I dislike the double-nuts. Anyone know off-hand where to get the replacement pinch nuts?

And actually, I only worked on the drivers-side today. I didn't want to run out of time and not be able to drive the car to work tomorrow. Maybe the missing shim is on the passenger-side? Since both wheels now have the same camber, I'm thinking all is fine for now...

[glutamodo]

CIP has the lock nuts:

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC%2DC10%2D4210

[drscope]

First as note, make sure you have ALL the shims. Not only do they set the proper angle between the face of the trailing arm and the steering knuckle, but they also set the distance under the head of the link pin.

If you leave one out, you may not be able to turn the link pin enough to get it to tighten up. This makes for a very loose riding front end.

As for the double nuts.....If you have a good set of wrenches, they arn't so bad. After all it is something you normally only fool with once every 2 years or so.

Some guys have trouble on the early cars with the single lock nut set up hitting on the grease cap.
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Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch!

[Woreign]

You're right... I don't have a thin enough wrench to hold the one nut in place. I had to use some pliers while tightening the other nut. Plus, I'm always a little paranoid about getting the hub too tight or too loose.

The link pins tightened up OK without the 8th shim. I'll work on the other knuckle this week and check the for the correct number of shims on the pins.

This was my first time working on a K&L suspension. It seemed a lot simpler and easier than the ball joint suspension... At least taking things apart was a lot easier (no pounding out ball joints from the trailing arms, etc).

[glutamodo]

Years ago, I made my own wrenches for holding those nuts down - I had a couple of 24 mm wrenches that I had no use for, so I took 'em to a grinding wheel and turned into flat 27s.

Still, that didn't mean I liked that double nut setup, so I sprung for the pinch nuts instead.

[Woreign]

Since both wheels now have the same camber, is there any reason to disassemble the other knuckle? When I took apart the driver's side, all I did was clean the pins, remove the excess grease, reassemble, and re-grease. I don't see what would be gained by disassembling the other side. Would re-greasing the knuckle be sufficient?