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1970t1vert Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2005 Posts: 245 Location: Vernon, NJ
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Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:21 am Post subject: Straight cut cam gears. What determines when to use them? |
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What are the limits of the stock beveled cam gears ?
When are straight cut gears the practical choice ? Steel or alum/steel combo?
Engine build is a 2275 street application, interested more in torque than high rpm . Have not determined a cam yet.
Thanks for any input. |
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Glenn  Mr. 010

Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 79415 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:22 am Post subject: |
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Straight cut gears should be used when you have triple or K800 springs. Or when you want that loud whine.
I have a 2180 with dual springs and run stock helical gears. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
Last edited by Glenn on Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Eaallred Samba Member

Joined: May 18, 2003 Posts: 5756 Location: West Valley City, Utah
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Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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If you do go straight cuts, steel on steel is the way to go.
But most cases do not require it. Most run them for the "bitchin" sound and most of the time questions regarding straight cuts is someone asking "who makes the loudest?". LaaaaAAAAAaaaaaame. Something like that is like the fart-pipe on a honda IMHO. _________________ Eric Allred
You have to remember something: Everybody pities the weak; Jealousy you have to earn. |
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Glenn  Mr. 010

Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 79415 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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Eaallred wrote: |
Most run them for the "bitchin" sound and most of the time questions regarding straight cuts is someone asking "who makes the loudest?". LaaaaAAAAAaaaaaame. |
Last month I tore a 8 month old 1776 apart for a friend to remove the straight gears for helical. After a month he couldn't take the sound any more. He waited until the winter to split the case and swap them out. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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Jimmy111 Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2006 Posts: 2643 Location: Wyoming
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Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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Straight cut gears use less power and there is no thrust against the cam bearings.
Helical gears have a lot of thrust but are quieter.
Choice is yours. |
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Bruce Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003 Posts: 17573 Location: Left coast, Canada
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Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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Jimmy111 wrote: |
Straight cut gears use less power .... |
The difference in power loss between the two types can't be measured by any dyno. The amount is trivial. _________________
overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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wardvwracer Samba Member

Joined: July 19, 2002 Posts: 489 Location: De Pere, WI
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Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:23 pm Post subject: Straight Cuts |
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"Back in the day" you could tell some of the faster VW's by the whine produced by straight cut gears. Same goes for cars running merged exhausts - you ran these parts because your car was running 12's and it was about finding power.
As noted above people ran straight cut gears when spring pressured picked up and we needed a way to reduce the thrust on the cam bearings. Unfortunately today, most engines running them don't need them. They have almost become our hobby's equivalent to the "coffee can exhaust" that all the ricers bolt on their 4-door accords. Everyone runs them because they "sound bitchin." _________________ David Ward
ACME Nostalgia Street/Strip '62 Buggy
1963 Single Cab
1969 Beetle Convertible
63 11-Window Kombi Bus
Cornpanzers |
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Glenn  Mr. 010

Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 79415 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: Straight Cuts |
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wardvwracer wrote: |
Everyone runs them because they "sound bitchin." |
More like annoying after an hour of driving. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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1970t1vert Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2005 Posts: 245 Location: Vernon, NJ
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Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the replies, your expertise is priceless. Dave |
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vwracerdave Samba Member

Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15599 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: Straight Cuts |
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wardvwracer wrote: |
Everyone runs them because they "sound bitchin." |
Today the junk Chinese copies are 1/3 the price that a good quality set was "back in the day" _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK |
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miniman82 Samba Swamp Donkey

Joined: March 22, 2005 Posts: 9515 Location: Southern Maryland
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Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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Glenn wrote: |
I have a 2810 |
Did you hire Jeff, or is that a typo?  _________________ Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747
Glenn wrote: |
satterley_sr wrote: |
I just wanted to bitch but I'm getting no sympathy. |
Welcome to the Samba. |
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Glenn  Mr. 010

Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 79415 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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miniman82 wrote: |
Glenn wrote: |
I have a 2810 |
Did you hire Jeff, or is that a typo?  |
Type... fixed.
Thanks _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
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joetron Samba Member

Joined: June 27, 2007 Posts: 271 Location: Cypress, TX
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Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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what do they sound like??
i'm curious now  _________________ Sponsored by Search Tool
Its not done until its Overdone! |
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66zeke Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2007 Posts: 118 Location: bonsall ca.
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Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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i know on my 460 ford they sounded like a big blower it was kinda funny but the gears themselves and they way the handle the load are stronger than helical thats why harley always used them in their trannys |
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Splitdog Samba Split Personality

Joined: February 16, 2004 Posts: 4135 Location: Planet VW
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Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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Glenn is right. Very annoying for a street car. Kinda like solid mounts.  _________________ CH³NO²
Z = z² + C
Der Blitzkrieg Kafers
#notacallooker |
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Eric_S Samba Member

Joined: August 12, 2007 Posts: 862 Location: Sparks (think Reno) NV
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Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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My straight cuts can barely be heard inside the car and not at all outside. Maybe my fart-can covers up the sound. _________________ --
Eric_S
What are all these extra parts? |
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lostinbaja Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2004 Posts: 4036 Location: Frankfort, Illinois
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Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:06 am Post subject: |
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The only time you can hear the straight cuts in my engine is at idle, pick up the RPM and the sound is gone, and I run a fairly quiet muffler. _________________ Jerry...
If it's being towed, it must be a trailer!
"Vee Grow Too Soon Oldt Und Too Late Schmardt"
RIP Morgan
My photos
http://www.manxgallery.org/gallery/album92 |
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Glenn  Mr. 010

Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 79415 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:17 am Post subject: |
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The sound is directly related to the type of gears and the "lash" or spacing between them. It depends on the case and many times it is extremely loud.
There's still no reason for them on a street car. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
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lostinbaja Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2004 Posts: 4036 Location: Frankfort, Illinois
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Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:44 am Post subject: |
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Glenn wrote: |
There's still no reason for them on a street car. |
I run K-800's on my "street car". There is a reason.  _________________ Jerry...
If it's being towed, it must be a trailer!
"Vee Grow Too Soon Oldt Und Too Late Schmardt"
RIP Morgan
My photos
http://www.manxgallery.org/gallery/album92 |
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70VWkid Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2006 Posts: 97
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Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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lostinbaja wrote: |
The only time you can hear the straight cuts in my engine is at idle, pick up the RPM and the sound is gone, and I run a fairly quiet muffler. |
2nd that! |
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