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Shiny new TB from scratch; pics
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Do you need a new throttle body?
Oh yes, please, mine's like a screen door after Katrina
63%
 63%  [ 35 ]
No, I like my crappy idle, surging and hot-starting problems just fine, thanks
12%
 12%  [ 7 ]
What's a throttle body?
23%
 23%  [ 13 ]
Total Votes : 55

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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:42 pm    Post subject: Shiny new TB from scratch; pics Reply with quote

Here's a few shots of the project that has been busying me these last few weeks: a brand spankin new throttle body to replace the badly-designed worn-out POS that came on the wbx, and a complete workaround for the idiotic TB switches. This is the kind of fun you can have when you get a few small machine tools.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I love this stuff!

It's made up of a 1/2" adapter plate that fits to the tapered plenum spigot, using the OEM sealing ring.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Then the main valve body with butterfly and idle bypass circuit bolts to the face of the adapter. A tube extension seals with an o-ring into the valve body, and has a groove with another fat o-ring for the rubber intake bellows to grip and seal to.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


You can see the idle air screw on the rear face of the valve body. I left the top surface clear because i didn't know if I would need to mount a switch there, but it's not going to be necessary, so future copies will have the air screw there where it will be easier to access.

Here's the adapter and valve body laid together, viewed from the engine side. You can see a slot between them, which is the delivery point for the idle air bypass. The inlet is a hole just upstream of the butterfly. The idle air screw varies how much air can flow around the butterfly thru this route.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I made the body as three pieces like this to save materials and make the process easier. Otherwise it would have to be made from a solid 4" round bar, with most of the material being turned into waste. The o-ring seal for the bellows is needed because the 2" aluminum pipe I can get is a little smaller OD than the OD of the stock TB spigot. It does make a good seal and grip, though. The adapter plate snugs down so the plenum spigot ends up butting right against the back of the valve body, eliminating a huge vacant groove left there in the stock installation, so it's a lot more aerodynamic internally once installed.

The 1/4" brass shaft runs in two tiny sealed stainless ball-bearings, and shaft endplay is tightly controlled, so there will be no wear on the ends of the butterfly, unlike the stock design that used the butterfly itself as an axial control, which guaranteed that it would wear badly.

I managed to get the clearance down to .001-.0015" all around the butterfly. That sounds pretty good, but I'd like to get it tighter still.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I drilled and countersunk the plate for flathead screws, so that side of the plate is smooth and aerodynamic, but the countersinks mean that the plate will center to the screws when tightened. That means the drillings have to be super-precise in the plate and the shaft, but it's tough to get the locations to within less than .001". Next time I'll just use some panhead screws because even though the heads will be bumps in the WOT airflow, it will enable me to locate the plate laterally with more precision after the fact. That will let me turn the butterfly to a total of .001" less than the bore diameter and still get it centered in the final install.

And finally, my secret weapon. I'm using an adjustable, very sensitive vacuum switch to replace the OEM mechanical TB switch or switches. I have it wired to the unused OXS LED in my inst. cluster as a test so I can see how it responds. The LED lights whenever there is switch closure, at idle and under load. This thing is far more responsive to transition off idle, the slightest touch of the pedal makes the LED go out, and it gives a WOT switch closure whenever manifold vac falls to less than 1"Hg. That means that the enrichment signal is given even at mid-throttle if engine load is high. No need to hold the pedal to the floor to get the ECU to run open-loop. Instead, it gives the signal when load is high, and opens again as vac returns, regardless of pedal position. Sometimes you're WOT, but don't need open-loop. This knows the difference. It just works on the EEC signal line.

Sorry, no pics of that.

Anyway, enjoy! And if anyone would like a copy, after working out any bugs I'll be offering these on my ad. Link below.
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Christopher Schimke
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HOLY CRAP!!!! I love you!
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funagon
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is awesome tencent. So, is it installed in the van, and are you driving it?

I didn't answer your survey because my lo-mileage van has a good TB. But I will need one eventually, just like everyone else who wants to keep driving these vans for years to come.
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Dogpilot
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nicely done! I think the vacuum switch is beyond clever, have you been raiding my Demerol supply? I have interest in one of your production models when you get it refined.

Bravo!
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I forgot the installed pic, didn't I?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Thanks guys, glad you like it.

Oh, and Dog? save some.
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rogerw
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't "need one" but that won't stop me from sending you a check. That TB looks sweet and would be one more reason not to more seriously plan for the suby swap. Thanks for adding to the list of parts I need to buy from 10C (exhuast, TB, motor). Smile

Again, nice work.
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CF
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

some one has a bit of time on their hands...............lol





nice job.......
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sagebus
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The wish list keeps growing. I dream about that fine engine you build, Have lusted over the SS exhaust, And today I marvel over that throttle body! Wow ! Fine work! Keep it up.
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snoop
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schweet! The camel's gonna need a "10¢ powered" bumper sticker Smile.
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Wellington
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm loving it!
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inspector58
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice work!!
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allsierra123
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dang 10c you are going to make start wanting to build up a very high performance 2.1 If you could do something for the leaky head problem then I would be all over keeping my engine.
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No 2.1's coming outa my shop.

2.2 and up.

There's a leaky head problem?
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. .10

What *little* I've done turning stuff, or "designing" anything (adapting actually..... and limited to "L" bracket complexity at that Wink ) sure makes me appreciate the work you've done.

Bravo!


Neil.
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allsierra123
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah I need to see what I can do to remedy it before I put my engine back in my van.
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floggingmolly
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome. And I thought home remodeling was a challenge. Geez.
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brooklynvan
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in awe.
Can you put one on the engine I hope to get from you?
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Crankey
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow, killer ! I want one now ! with you, I may not do that subaru conversion. I still love that SVX manifold Rolling Eyes

but seriously I really find your work really interesting. I planned on a subie at some point but I might not since your work on the WBX is making it more interesting.

I'm definatly interested in the SS exhaust.
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snoop
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Presumably no compatibility issue with the GW hot wire AFM...right? Or non-stock 2.1s (in particular GW WBXers)? Is tuning of your TB required (read: possible) for these motors? And/or when vented by your TBA headers? And/or to optimize 1.25 ratio rockers? With apologies for my ignorance, the more sophisticated the reply, the better.

Most sincere thanks for your efforts to keep vanagons volkswagens.
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allsierra123
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this going to mean better gas mileage?
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