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NAZglen Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2019 Posts: 179 Location: Prescott Valley, AZ.
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Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2024 4:51 pm Post subject: Trailing Arm Pivot Bolt |
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So.....
After looking at the pivot arm bushing, it looked all dry rotted. Ordered new ones and this afternoon I decided to attack it.
Removed the wheel, removed the drum and all the brake components, disconnected the brake line and unbolted the pivot arm from the spring plates.
Ran out and bought a 17mm hex socket for the pivot bolt.
Then found out it is at a slight angle to the car. With a series of wobble extensions I now have a extension sticking out through a hole in the cast arm for the rear body mount.
Sprayed it with brake clean. not much dirt or grime came out. Got my old 1/2 drive electric impact and started at it. Forward, reverse, forward, reverse, and so on. Nothing!!!
Sprayed it with WD-40. Gonna go out and spray it again in an hour or two. Then let it sit overnight and attack it again tomorrow morning. Do not know how much torque this old Craftsman put out.
Any tips or tricks? |
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Vanapplebomb Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010 Posts: 5530 Location: Holland, MI
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Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2024 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: TRAILING ARM PIVOT BOLT |
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Threads are probably seized up. Unfortunately, you can’t spray the threads of the bolt with the arm in place, so you are going to have to brute force your way out of that situation. Since you have new brackets on hand, do whatever you got to do. Cut the only ones out for all it matters. _________________ 1800 Type 4 Berrien 295
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021 |
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NAZglen Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2019 Posts: 179 Location: Prescott Valley, AZ.
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Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2024 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: TRAILING ARM PIVOT BOLT |
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I did buy another set of trailing arms. I have a feeling the old Craftsman impact doesnt have a lot of torque. Gonna borrow a big Milwaukee cordless tomorrow. |
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jeffrey8164 Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 3944 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2024 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: Trailing Arm Pivot Bolt |
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Should be 166 ft lbs of torque on those and their peened as well. Add a little rust and becomes even more difficult. I had to slide my floor jack handle over a breaker bar for more leverage.
Make sure you peen them again when you reinstall or they’ll walk out over time. _________________ Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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NAZglen Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2019 Posts: 179 Location: Prescott Valley, AZ.
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2024 4:44 am Post subject: Re: Trailing Arm Pivot Bolt |
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Milwaukee didnt budge it. Now trying a 1/2" breaker bar with a 6' long pipe as a cheater.Since the hex pivot bolt is at an angle (pointing towards the torsion bar housing) I had to use a 3/8 stubby wobble adapter. Which stripped itself. Cant find a 1/2 stubby wobble extension locally. Just ordered a couple online, Waiting for them to arrive and have at it again.
In the mean time I started running the hard brake lines. Got a kit from Jbugs. Not one of the lines is even close to the lines that are on the 70 bug. Having to put extra curves and bends in the lines to make them the same distance. What a pain! |
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ORANGECRUSHer Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2006 Posts: 3145 Location: West Coast (Michigan's)
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2024 10:29 am Post subject: Re: Trailing Arm Pivot Bolt |
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Well this is a better problem to have than being on the trail and finding out it loosened up and fell out.
I recently check mine and was surprised to find it quite loose.
These are a good thing to check ROUTINELY and also make sure to peen the edge over so it cant back out. Some people even go to the extent to weld tabs around the bolt so they can put a pin behind it, but that's just another thing to break in my opinion in an area where there isn't much room as it is.
Ironically, I also like to use a little anti-seize on the bolt so when I do want to get it out, it's not galled and seized up. It's one of those spots that people don't think about until they need to take it apart. And you can't get at the threads to spray any penetrant in them. Anti-seize.
Have you tried any heat? _________________ Brian H.
OrangeCrushERBerrien Warrior-2.4L Quad4-2x3 arms-1.5Fox coilovers-094-930CVs
LAZY MARY1970 Baja 2110cc-82mm CB forged crank-AA pistons/cylinders-Grant rings-1.1 vw rockers-CB serpkit-CB chromoly PRs-CB maxiflow filter pump-wix51515 filter-cut/turned front beam-AEM wideband-Auber CHT |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20586 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2024 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Trailing Arm Pivot Bolt |
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Then there is this (or something similar) so you don't have to worry about losing the pivot bolt.... ....
Or instead of a "pin", use a bolt with nylock nut.......
_________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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Busstom Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014 Posts: 4451 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Trailing Arm Pivot Bolt |
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jeffrey8164 wrote: |
Should be 166 ft lbs of torque on those... |
Can I ask you where you got that spec? _________________ My name's Steve and it's pronounced "Bust 'em" (cuz people think I'm Tom)
cory464 wrote: |
if you aren't perfectly centered in the hole you will have issues when you tap it. |
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NAZglen Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2019 Posts: 179 Location: Prescott Valley, AZ.
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Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: Trailing Arm Pivot Bolt |
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Using the 17mm hex socket connected to two 1/2" stubby wobble sockets, connected to long 1/2" extension, I was able to use a big Makita impact, tightening and loosening. When I saw it barely budge I switched to a 1/2 breaker bar with a4' long cheater pipe to get the bolt out.
Lucky for me it came loose and is off. Now I can replace the pivot arm bushing and move onto removing the trailing arm (marking the torsion bar arm trailing arm first) and replacing its bushings. Then clocking it a notch or two and bolting everything back together.
The right side is totally different.
On the left side, the trailing arm dropped enough for me to fit a 1/2 extension through a hole in the cast arm that swoops up to where it connects the rear body bolt.
On the right side... it is not dropping enough to fit a 1/2" extension. I am shy 1/8" to fit a 1/2 extension through the hole. So I tried with a 3/8" extension. Used the impact loosen and tighten. Didnt budge. Then put on the breaker bar and cheater. Just when it felt like it might come loose... CRACK went the 3/8 extension. Tried again... CRACK went another 3/8" extension.
Wondering if grinding the top of the cast body mount arm just enough to fit a 1/2 extension through it might be the way to go.
Thoughts? Tips? Tricks? |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20586 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: Trailing Arm Pivot Bolt |
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NAZglen wrote: |
Using the 17mm hex socket connected to two 1/2" stubby wobble sockets, connected to long 1/2" extension, I was able to use a big Makita impact, tightening and loosening. When I saw it barely budge I switched to a 1/2 breaker bar with a4' long cheater pipe to get the bolt out.
Lucky for me it came loose and is off. Now I can replace the pivot arm bushing and move onto removing the trailing arm (marking the torsion bar arm trailing arm first) and replacing its bushings. Then clocking it a notch or two and bolting everything back together.
The right side is totally different.
On the left side, the trailing arm dropped enough for me to fit a 1/2 extension through a hole in the cast arm that swoops up to where it connects the rear body bolt.
On the right side... it is not dropping enough to fit a 1/2" extension. I am shy 1/8" to fit a 1/2 extension through the hole. So I tried with a 3/8" extension. Used the impact loosen and tighten. Didnt budge. Then put on the breaker bar and cheater. Just when it felt like it might come loose... CRACK went the 3/8 extension. Tried again... CRACK went another 3/8" extension.
Wondering if grinding the top of the cast body mount arm just enough to fit a 1/2 extension through it might be the way to go.
Thoughts? Tips? Tricks? |
Always go bigger tools if you are breaking smaller tools, and NEVER us a extension on ratchet.... _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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NAZglen Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2019 Posts: 179 Location: Prescott Valley, AZ.
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Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: Trailing Arm Pivot Bolt |
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Not using a rachet. That would break immediately. Using a 18" breaker bar and then a 4' long cheater bar on that. The location of the pivot arm bolt will not allow me to use anything else. Unless I flip it on its roof to be able to get leverage (LoL). |
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Vanapplebomb Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010 Posts: 5530 Location: Holland, MI
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Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: Trailing Arm Pivot Bolt |
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I would have tried unthreading the bolt long ago.
You got new pivot brackets, right? So, to heck with the old ones. Cut on either side of the trailing arm pivot and remove the trailing arm. Then cut the rest of the bracket out and weld in the new one. _________________ 1800 Type 4 Berrien 295
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021 |
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dirtkeeper Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2008 Posts: 3231 Location: Left of everywhere
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Posted: Sat May 04, 2024 9:11 am Post subject: Re: Trailing Arm Pivot Bolt |
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I’ve used an Allen key or hex key with a big breaker bar to get them loose |
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NAZglen Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2019 Posts: 179 Location: Prescott Valley, AZ.
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Posted: Sun May 05, 2024 11:27 am Post subject: Re: Trailing Arm Pivot Bolt |
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12 hours later, 6 big band-aids later, lots of small scraps later, 30 bucks in wobble sockets later.
I prevailed over two bolts that were put in place about 55 years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hoping putting them back in will be less of a struggle. |
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NAZglen Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2019 Posts: 179 Location: Prescott Valley, AZ.
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Posted: Sun May 05, 2024 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: Trailing Arm Pivot Bolt |
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So.... After I got the 55 year old rubber bushings out. After I Brake-Keened and sanded the inner pivot of the arm. It was easy enough to get the new urethane bushings in the arm and they fit flush.
But... when trying to press the inner steel tube (the one the pivot bolt fits through) into the bushings, one of the bushings kept popping out about an 1/8 of a inch. We finally decided that the bushings were to high. I think what was happening was that the bushings expanded in when you pressed them into the arm. Then when you pressed the inner steel tube on, they could not compress inwards or outwards. So they became longer. At least that my theory.
So we took both bushings out and took about 1/16 of an inch off of the face where they touch each other. This allowed them to expand towards each other. Also I bought two sets of bushings and tubes. Lucky I did because we trashed two of them in the learning process.
So before you press the bushings into the pivot arm, you might want to make them a tad shorter. So they have room to expand towards each other. |
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