Brazilian Aircooled VW Cooling Tins

[RipNTear]

I'm looking for any info about obtaining the alt,fan,etc,and cooling tins used on the Brazilian VWs aircooled models {like the GOL} I have seen them on a few cars in magazines and on a kitcar at a show. I like the fact that they are OEM VW and would very much like to know more about them. And possibly find a contact for more info about them,and how to obtain these Items. I am a builder of VWs and Replica Porsche's 356's ,55o Spyders and 718 RSK's . I am not very pleased by the aftermarket fan shrouds available 911 style or others. If anyone knows anything that might help me please contact me @ [email protected] or at this thread. Thanx RipNTear

[68Bug-lite]

Well, I know that the low profile Brazilian Puma fan shroud, that uses standard doghouse fan, oil cooler ect, can be found at CB Performance...

http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1523

Also, it's been learned that the GOL has perhaps the worst cooling capabilities of any factory air cooled system out there...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=211751&highlight=gol

Good luck though, Peace Greg

[66 Käfer]

I agree, Jake Raby is very well respected in the air-cooled world and he actually spend a bunch of his own money doing research on various oem and aftermarket cooling set-ups and the Gol set-up was indeed one of the worst. VW of Brasil actually only made it for one year and then the Gol went to the 1.8l water-cooled engine. Remember the VW Fox?
Anyway, he specializes in Type IV engines now but at the time he did the research, he was doing type 1s as well. He ended-up acquiring the DTM (down the middle) shroud from Oregon Performance, which he manufactures now and he also makes a version for the type one. This is the best cooling set-up for a type IV and along with the OEM shrouds, it is great on the type 1 as well. It isn't as sexy as a 911 set-up but it is efficient. Jake Raby has spend a considerable amount of time and money in research and development on his products to make sure they do work.
Check it out on his websites.
http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/
I can see why you aren't pleased with the after market shrouds, they are junk! Especially the cylinder tins, they just don't fit right. I haven't tried the "no gap" Scat shrouds because I'm afraid they aren't going to be any better. The cylinder tin don't even have the diffuser any more...
911 shrouds look cool but are way too much money and over-cool the engines. With the 5 bladed fan you may be able to get away but it still isn't right and is still about a grand by the time you get the Porsche parts.
IMHO, your best bet is either to get all OEM stuff or look into the DTM.

[Jake Raby]

The Gol shroud was used on 1300cc engines that ran on Alcohol... It was also front mounted.

It was by far the most horrible system that I experienced during my development work in 2003. Nothing was worse, even the worst aftermarket system was better than the GOL shroud! The biggest issues were the huge temperature deltas between all 4 cylinders.
_________________
Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell"

[66 Käfer]

Hey Jake:
I have been listening to some of your 4th dimensions shows and I must say, they are very informative, makes me want to build a type IV for my 66 ragtop.
I wish there was more like you in the industry, maybe then there wouldn't be so many junk parts on the market. I was out of the air-cooled vw
scene for a while during the nineties and got back into it in 2001 or so and even though there seem to be more stuff available compared to the 80s and early 90s, I was surprise to see how bad some of these parts are.
Keep up the good work.

[Jake Raby]

I am working hard to help a large manufacturer of TI parts to get their quality back up a tadand things are going OK thus far...

The proble isn't the parts- the problem are the PEOPLE WHO BUY and SUPPORT the junk, if there is a demand it will be filled. Cheap parts always sell, whether they are junk or not.

Things are on the horizon that will take the TI engine to another level with affordability as well.
_________________
Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell"

[66 Käfer]

[Jake Raby]

The issue became the fact that the parts were so bad that hardly anything could be built with them at all.... Someone had to do something or the whole folowing would have died.
_________________
Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell"

[66 Käfer]

Very true, I ran into that putting a friends engine together, he bought a bug with an engine that was apart and when it came time to install all that chrome stuff...boy what a mess, nothing fit. We ended-up using some old stock parts that I had along with some other stock shrouds that he bought from a local VW shop to make it fit the way it should. Good thing he did because the Gene Berg linkage for the carbs doesn't fit the 36 horse chrome shroud. Go figure, they indexed the generator/alternator a few degrees off on the after market shrouds. Those little details or lack thereoff is what makes the difference. You may think no big deal, but it also affects the location of the ground screw on the generator which in interferes slightly with the lever on the injection pump on a stock carb if you're not carefull...arggg
Anyway good to see some-one on top of it.

[Jake Raby]

My DTM shroud is purposely made not to work with the Berg linkage Joe Locicero did it that way and through respect to him I have kept it the same way!
_________________
Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell"

[66 Käfer]

I can understand that, I don't particularly like the way the Berg linkage looks, but it does work good on a type I and my buddy bought a set of carbs with that linkage so it was there.
I really like how clean a 356 looks with the linkage behind the shroud even though it's a little more difficult to get to the cable hook-up. I have read all these things about how bad a push-pull linkage is because of the expansion rates, and how the engine grows as it warms up and all that, but I have to tell you, I never had problems on my 66 with the push-pull linkage that I had with the ICTs other than the pivot point wearing out a bit. I don't know, maybe it was just mine that worked so good. Anyway, this thread was about shrouds... sorry.

[bhorn]

[66 Käfer]

The Berg linkage was made to work on a stock Type 1 shroud anyway and since Oregon Performance, i.e. Joe Locicero, made the DTM originally to be for the Type IV upright conversions, there was no need to incorporate the capability of being able to use the Berg linkage. Carburator kits that are made for the type IV already used a crossbar linkage that mounts on the air cleaner bases anyway.

[Jake Raby]

Joe designed the DTM systems many years ago... He did not appreciate the Berg linkage due to the fact that it was rigid mounted to the most vibratory part of the engine, which transmits harmonics directly to the throttle shafts. These harmonics cause excessive accelerator pump dribbling which can make an engine run rich and be less than responsive to jetting changes. The harmonics also wear throttle shaft bushings.

I had experienced BOTH of these issues prior to even knowing the DTM was in existence in the last 1980s.

Designing incompatibility with certain components is a feature that makes it very hard for people to make mistakes with component choice.

Joe and Gene Berg also did not get along, Joe had more VW experience than Gene and they butted heads many times, this undoubtedly had an impact on Joe's thinking as well.

Joe made the DTM the way he did because he had strong beliefs, when I resurrected the DTM design I respected those wishes and left this portion of the DTM the same as Joe designed it. If I were concerned with sales primarily I would have changed it and made it like every other shroud, to work with basically any linkage.

The shroud mounted linkage also causes wear issues on the factory Porsche engines it was installed onto, pick up any set of Zenith or Solex 40P11 cabs that you find and check the throttle shafts for play- thats the linkage's fault!
_________________
Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell"

[bhorn]

Very well put, Mr. Raby. Thank you for your insight.
_________________
'74 Beetle <-currently
'68 Beetle <- Gone but never forgotten

[RipNTear]

Thank you guys for the info. I was'nt aware that Jake had tested it before , I have much respect for Jake and his work, his attention to quality and precision machining, and his willingness to share his knowledge with the rest of us in the aircooled world. The GOL cooling set up was something that I saw in a magazines coverage of a show, one of the guy I work with mentioned an odd OEM set up ,and asked what I knew of it. I searched my magazine collection and only came up with a picture { no info } So I put it on here. And now I know the real deal!!! And by the way , when he ask me about an alternative cooling tin setup DTM was the 1st one I mentioned to him!!! Thanx to everyone, RipNTear And keep up the great work JAKE,your an inspiration to all of us!!!!!!

[ErnestoCurty]

[oasis]

You resurrected an 18-month old thread for this?

The original poster was asking about rear-engine applications and Jake's answer was in kind. He even stated the Gol shroud was originally meant for a front engine design ... uh, like the Gol.


_________________
Now: 2003 New Beetle Turbo S / 1990 Single Cab Transporter / 2014 Tiguan R-Line 4motion / 2013 Tiguan S / 2002 Golf GLS TDI
Past: 1974 Thing Acapulco / 2009 Eos Komfort / 1997 Jetta GT / 2002 Cabrio GLX / 2002 Passat GLS / 1971 Super Beetle / 1993 EuroVan MV Westfalia / 1981 Pickup LX / 1985 Vanagon / 1986 Jetta GLI

[ErnestoCurty]