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Chuck Fryer
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 134
Location: Harvard IL
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 Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:20 am Post subject: Headliner now installed with pics |
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I have looked and not found an answer. I am familiar with beetle installs but not the ghia. I am wondering about holding the sides of the headdliner in place. On a beetle it crimps at the door and the 1/4 windows have a channel you can binder clip the material to. The ghia is just a flat area that the molding and weatherstrip go. How is the headliner material held in place while the weatherstriping is being installed.
It seems that the headliner should be glues and dry, or almost dry when the rubber and chrome are being installed. Does that sound right? Or am I completely off on this?
Thanks
Chuck
Last edited by Chuck Fryer on Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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iamdonquixote
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Joined: January 28, 2003
Posts: 2087
Location: M*ssholia
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: |
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I am no expert on this but I installed a headliner on my 69' -- I did it twice because the first time didn't look to great.
You are correct, from my memory there are _no_ "claws" to hold the headliner in, the whole thing is glued.
It wasn't fun, here is what I did:
Removed front and back windows
Removed corner windows
Removed aluminum window trim from windows
Removed old headliner.
Put bows in new headliner ( keep track of which is which ! )
glued the front in, made sure it was dry
pulled on the back then glued that in.
glued the sides in last
keep in mind the procedure above may be totally wrong. The headliner doesn't look too bad, the sides are not perfect though
good luck |
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kelliebug
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Joined: September 01, 2006
Posts: 170
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:04 am Post subject: |
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I actually just installed mine yesterday, and yes, it is all held in with glue. There are several very helpful pictures in the gallery showing how to use clamps before gluing. I took my time trimming and positioning the headliner using only clamps until I got it to where I was satisfied with the lack of wrinkles, then I began gluing in small sections all around. I also glued the front and back first then began gluing the sides. I then replaced the clamps after gluing and left the clamps on overnight. I will see today if the glue stuck well!  |
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ovalboy
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Joined: May 04, 2004
Posts: 1312
Location: Beautiful Northern Cincinnati
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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From kingkarmann's gallery photos:
He has a bunch of pics of his headliner installation starting on about the 4th page of his gallery. |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2003
Posts: 453
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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Nice picture above 
You gotta have lots of spring clamps - i kinda' like the office depot supply in the above picture but they are definitely required because as pointed out you will no-doubt have to tension and then re-tension your headliner multiple times to get all the little wrinkles out. If you are shy of a million clamps, make use of two clamps and some paint stir sticks or even thick popsicle sticks - whatever, small sorta' flexible wood sticks that will allow you to distribute spring clamping force over a wider span...
Doing the "first pass" as above and then coming back the next day is actually the way we do all headliners (ghia, beetle, bus - same). If it is a warm sunny day then letting it sit outside will help even more to allow the vinyl to stretch-out because it will... so why not accept it, not rush it and get better results?
Remember that the Ghia (coupe of course) has the aluminum and rubber seal that is secured to the side/rear quarter windows and so this helps secure the headliner laterally across the roof. If you are careful, you can hide the headliner seam _just_ behind/under this aluminum trim's location. (ie: cut the headliner excess off so that the headliner is hidden below this trim/seal but the headliner will still be secured by the small screws used to attach the quarter window's upper seal (that aluminum flashing piece).
_________________
jeff
http://www.revolks.com/ |
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Chuck Fryer
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 134
Location: Harvard IL
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the pointers!!!
I might be trying this whole thing out tomorrow. I have a tweed headliner from sewfine, and have been happy with their products in the past. I guess my assumptions were correct that it is glued in place under the aluminum trim.
thanks again |
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The aussie Trimmer
Samba Member
Joined: July 05, 2006
Posts: 385
Location: Western Australia
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:24 am Post subject: Re: Headliner install question |
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| Chuck Fryer wrote: |
I have looked and not found an answer. I am familiar with beetle installs but not the ghia. I am wondering about holding the sides of the headdliner in place. On a beetle it crimps at the door and the 1/4 windows have a channel you can binder clip the material to. The ghia is just a flat area that the molding and weatherstrip go. How is the headliner material held in place while the weatherstriping is being installed.
It seems that the headliner should be glues and dry, or almost dry when the rubber and chrome are being installed. Does that sound right? Or am I completely off on this?
Thanks
Chuck |
Here’s how a professional does it.
If this is a liner replacement in an old car, it is very important to make sure to clean all the window sealant and old glue from all the edges that the lining will be glued to.
Cut material for the front A and rear C pillars and brush them with 3M contact cement, and coat the pillars. Working with the first piece you glued, position them on the pillar and secure in place repeat on the other 3 pillars making sure they are at the beginning of the top corner on the pillar and remove excess waste material with a new box cutter blade.
Before you start to fit the head liner make sure your interior light wires and the captured nuts for the rear quarter glass pillars are in place, this will save you a lot of mucking around and swearing later.
At this point you can glue in a piece of sound deadener in the roof area to reduce roof noise and heat transfer.
Lay the new headliner out on a table or bench, mark the centre of the liner front and back, insert the bows making sure you put them in the correct sequence and cut away the excess material from the bow pockets along the sides. Then tape up the outer edge of the side rails to the edge of the holes for the window seal channel with painter’s masking tape.
Brush coat the under side of the liner around the edges with 3M contact cement in a can (not an aerosol spray glue, it’s useless) allowing enough so you can make contact all around the roof. (If you can’t judge it, fit the liner into the car and mark the under side with a coloured tailors chalk for a guide).Paint the glue around the window edges first and then the side rails, making sure you put enough glue on the paint, remove the tape from the side rails.
Now carefully collect the bows together and enter the car, fit the headliner bows into their correct holes starting from the back working to the front, then centre the liner. Take the front of the liner making sure the front bow is in it’s correct upright position and put the centre mark in the middle of the windscreen aperture and touch it down on the windscreen lip and clamp it, (you can use a trimming clamp or the very popular office paper clamp, but you only need 6 at the most), take the rear of the liner and do the same, but this time take up the slack in the liner from front to back. (It needs to be tight, but not strained into submission)
Pull the liner out diagonally to the left and touch it down on the glue at the back about 6” from the corner, repeat this on the right and again at the front corners taking up the slack down both sides, the liner should be mostly wrinkle free in the middle of the roof (do not rub down the front or rear edge yet).
Carefully and starting from the middle bow pocket pull the liner out toward the side to give it sufficient tension to remove any wrinkles and touch it down on the glue hard, go to the other side and pull out the same bow pocket toward the other side and touch that side down hard on the glue. Repeat this as you work toward the back and front (like tensioning down a cylinder head) once the sides are in position you can pull out the middle part between each bow and touch down the glued areas down the side rails and rub it down hard.
Check the front of the liner, you can detach the side front of the liner and reposition it to remove any wrinkles that may have been left. Repeat this in the other 3 corners of the liner and rub down the liner on the windscreen lip front and back, then remove the waste liner from around the windscreen and rear window (place the other 2 clamps in the corners to hold the liner until you fit the windows). Cut the material so it is about 1 ½” down from the bottom corners of the window and glue down overlapping the pillar material repeat on the other 3 pillars.
Mark the positions of the side seal channel holes with a skewer on the side rails and draw a line from front to back about ¼” outside the holes leaving a small amount so the seal channel screws can pin the liner down on the sides, cut along this line to remove the excess waste material from both sides.
If you are completing a full restoration, I would suggest you leave the side rails off until you have the door glass fitted into the door this way you can draw a mark where the glass is when the door is shut and position the seal channels accordingly.
Cheers,
Kev. |
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Chuck Fryer
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 134
Location: Harvard IL
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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With the help of people here I was able to get the headliner hung today. I am happy with the results, as always it could be better. It was pretty straight forward, use a lot of binder clips and let the glue set up before you clamp it.
Thanks
Chuck
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kelliebug
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Joined: September 01, 2006
Posts: 170
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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Looks nice, but it kind of looks like your iron left a burn mark on it?!!!!  |
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vwairheads
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Joined: March 26, 2007
Posts: 675
Location: chula vista
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| kelliebug wrote: |
| Looks nice, but it kind of looks like your iron left a burn mark on it?!!!! |
you should ask your wife to iron it for you  nice work though. |
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Chuck Fryer
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 134
Location: Harvard IL
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| vwairheads wrote: |
| kelliebug wrote: |
| Looks nice, but it kind of looks like your iron left a burn mark on it?!!!! |
you should ask your wife to iron it for you nice work though. |
I know, I know, I know.
She got a pretty good laugh out of my iron mark. For now it will stay there, someday I will rip that liner out and install ANOTHER one. |
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garyrowland
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Joined: April 29, 2004
Posts: 539
Location: crown point, Ind.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| leave the iron mark! its like the run in the paint job, you know where its at, but some won't notice! its all part of that do it yourself custom job! |
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Didi
Samba Member
Joined: June 28, 2005
Posts: 59
Location: South Africa
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:05 am Post subject: |
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After reading the thread I decided to try and install it myself.
I took the old lining to the local upholstry shop. I had a new one made for R450 South African rand ($50)
Here is how it went. Thanks for all the advice!
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1970 Westy
1972 Westy
1979 Microbus |
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tondemonai
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2008
Posts: 364
Location: Memphis, TN
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 12:04 am Post subject: |
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Hey guys - 2 questions.
My headliner bows were already out when I got the car. What order do the bows go in? I know each one is different lengths. I measured in the car from the tabs across, and it looks like the longest is in the rear of the car, getting progressively shorter towards the front.. Is this correct?
Also, when I test fitted, the bows would not stay "up" in the groove, and kept wanting to pop down. Assuming my bow order was correct, how do you fix this?
Trying to get these questions answered before I glue it down.
Thanks!
_________________
(O= i =O) One day, lad, this car will be yours. |
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jakehenes
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Joined: March 18, 2007
Posts: 96
Location: milwaukee wisconsin
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| tondemonai wrote: |
Hey guys - 2 questions.
My headliner bows were already out when I got the car. What order do the bows go in? I know each one is different lengths. I measured in the car from the tabs across, and it looks like the longest is in the rear of the car, getting progressively shorter towards the front.. Is this correct?
Also, when I test fitted, the bows would not stay "up" in the groove, and kept wanting to pop down. Assuming my bow order was correct, how do you fix this?
Trying to get these questions answered before I glue it down.
Thanks! |
i have the exact same issue, i am a mechanic not a seamsterss/seamster.! HELP HELP i have another question to add, the new liner has a notch cut in it. is this front? |
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jakehenes
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2007
Posts: 96
Location: milwaukee wisconsin
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| pictures are always good i will get mine tomorrow |
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CLKWRK
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Joined: October 02, 2001
Posts: 566
Location: Toronto
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lstyles
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2009
Posts: 246
Location: Oakland, Ca
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:03 am Post subject: |
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Great post here! Two questions though:
1) Do you use the same glue for the insulation as you do for the headliner itself?
2) Does the headliner overlap the pillar pieces or does the pillar piece overlap the headliner piece?
Thanks
Lori |
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Ian Godfrey
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Joined: September 25, 2006
Posts: 1213
Location: Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Quality contact adhesive in a can (3M or similar) that you brush on, sprays will not work well. Same glue for pillars, post and insulation.
Pillars on first then headliner overlaps pillars. |
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lstyles
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2009
Posts: 246
Location: Oakland, Ca
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| Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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I got the headliner on and it looks pretty good and am going to go back tomorrow and glue it after it stretches some and I will put it a little tighter. Two questions:
1)Do you glue the headliner up and over the front window and rear window lips (the lip seal sits on)? I was thinking it would make it too thick for the seal if there was material on both sides of that lip. Although it would really seal it all in.
2) For the pillars, how do those get finished off at the bottom? Mine were already out when I got the car. I can see the dashboard comes over to meet them up front but it doesnt completely cover that area.
thanks,
Lori |
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