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TRAVELER
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Joined: September 13, 2006
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Location: Where the sidewalk ends and the road begins
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 Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject: hard start relay |
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I have been reading about using relays to aid in starting issues and was wonder if a horn relay from say, a 73 super would work as well as one from a ghia i just happen to have one from a super so i was wondering if It would work as well? thanks john
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JimA
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Joined: August 17, 2005
Posts: 370
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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I don't believe you can substitute the relays. I just bought the Bosch relay kit for $19.95 + tax. It was about the easiest thing I've ever installed on a bug... And best of all it works! Over 100 degrees here today, hotter than the day it wouldn't start, and it turned right over.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=303916&highlight=
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ProWelder
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Joined: May 01, 2007
Posts: 117
Location: Burden, KS
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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New starter is the best fix. I have no idea about the relay thing. I think it would need to be a starter relay to handle the amps. I think some people use a Ford relay.
-Winslow Haselwood
SAW Industries
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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I use Bosch 30 amp relays.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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TRAVELER
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Joined: September 13, 2006
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Location: Where the sidewalk ends and the road begins
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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I suppose most of the boxtype auto parts places carry this kit? auto zone,advanced etc ? thanks
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Glenn
Mr. 010
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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I buy the relay and wire them myself.
Easy as cake.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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JimA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| TRAVELER wrote: |
| I suppose most of the boxtype auto parts places carry this kit? auto zone,advanced etc ? thanks |
I looked around. In Arizona only the bug shops carry them. Allison Automotive in Prescott had them the cheapest. And Wolfsburg West has them for 19.95 I think as well.
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TRAVELER
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Location: Where the sidewalk ends and the road begins
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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Just installed a new bosch starter today low voltage coming from switch all grounds are clean good batt.
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TRAVELER
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Location: Where the sidewalk ends and the road begins
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Glenn thats kinda what i was getting at i also have a couple of ford style solinoids that are new on hand but ididn`t know if i could use one and keep it under the seat. is the part number in the picture for just the relay or the kit? the thought of using a ford part in my bug kinda makes me feel unclean!!!! 
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bartman
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| i read somewhere(hoover pages?) that the ford relay draws almost as much current as the stock solenoid. i think that bosch only draws a couple of amps |
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Russ Wolfe
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| Glenn wrote: |
I use Bosch 30 amp relays.
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The solenoid draws 30 amps to pull in, (has to move the bendix), and 20 amps to hold.
On 12V cars, I use the #53 relay from a water cooled VW, or if I can find them, the glow plug relay from a diesel rabbit. The #53 is rated at 40 amps, and the diesel glow plug relay is rated at 50 amps.
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Ruffturn
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| Glenn wrote: |
I use Bosch 30 amp relays.
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According to that, the fuse seems to be in the wrong place. It's in the ground side of the relay's coil circuit. It will only function (blow open) if the relay coil becomes shorted; and it would have to short to less than 1 ohm. I would think that the fuse would be in the red wire, near the battery terminal. That way it can protet the wiring to the battery, the relay contacts and the wiring to the stater solenoid.
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Glenn
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:59 am Post subject: |
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It's on the red wire that runs to the battery. The wire on the fuse is black and there's a red butt connector that connects it to the red wire.
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Glenn
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Ruffturn
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, looking closely, I can see it (I've got a filter on my monitor that doesn't help too much). The fuse holder and the wire over it are both yellow. Still, I think I would have placed the fuse closer towards the source. 
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NOVA Airhead
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Joined: July 20, 2005
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Location: Richmond, VA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:23 am Post subject: |
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ProWelder wrote:
| Quote: |
New starter is the best fix. I have no idea about the relay thing. I think it would need to be a starter relay to handle the amps. I think some people use a Ford relay.
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You can have a brand new starter and still have starting problems when the car gets hot. It is partly due to the design of the starter circuit in a VW. The hard start relay is to deal with wiring problems - either wire that has deteriorated or connections that are not good, not problems with the starter. You could try cleaning all of the connections in the starter circuit before installing a relay.
This article explains it all including the testing of the starter to see if it is the problem:
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/wired/wired_03_01/wired_03_01.htm
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conrad1468
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TRAVELER
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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thanks for all the info picked up a relay today my parts guy said the kit was on back order so now its just a matter of making up the wiring for it and checking out the differences in my wiring this bug is fi. so it has a 2 into one wire setup I will let you know as soon as i get to it thanks again! 
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TRAVELER
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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As far as i can tell right now i have 2 red coming off of + post 1 lg 1 small and 2 red wires with a t coupling into one going out of drivers side under seat and out the fire wall is it correct to assum one is for fuel pump and one is for switch going into one lead? does that mean i should run a seperate lead to starter just for fuel pump? 
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ProWelder
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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Either way the relay is a band-aid fix to the real problem either starter or wiring.
-Winslow Haselwood
SAW Industries
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Blue 1971 Standard- 1641cc, Quiet Pack, Pertronix Ignitor, Scat Drag Fast, lowered
Blue 1973 Standard-stock, Ghia front disc, no engine right now
Black 1966 Beetle-stock 1200cc |
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NOVA Airhead
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure I am following you.
The positive side of the battery has two wires - a large and a small?
Where are the two red wires with the T coupling?
Also, what year car? You have FI?
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