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Lui Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2004 Posts: 151 Location: East TN
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: Five speed tranny? |
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germansupplyscott wrote: |
the easiest way to do what you are asking to do is to use slightly larger tires, this will also lower your rpms, but it will have the effect of a taller gear ratio. |
Not a bad idea, I may consider that when my tires get worn. . . . _________________ -Lui
1976 Westy
"If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you. . . "
Please feel free to visit my "Westfalia" website and sign the guestbook!
http://www.geocities.com/lilithomson |
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steponmebbbboom Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2004 Posts: 6390
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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Ive never had any complaints about my gear spread, only my top end. Larger tires would be fine for me, if my engine was strong enough. It does feel as though it would pull harder, but as mentioned speeding up the fan would be necessary, which would probably add more horsepower draw and heat than extra cooling capacity. Also, there is less reserve torque for going up hills at speed. |
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cbcarch Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2006 Posts: 224 Location: St. Louis, MO
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Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject: RPM/fan speed |
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Anyone ever thought of or heard of a larger diameter crank pulley?
i.e. the opposite effect of a smaller diameter "power pulley"
Boy--we'll really need to do some math now--larger tires, 5 speed box
w/ different ratios, larger diameter crank pulley--
I stay in the slow lane and do about 65 max on the freeway--let em all blow by me at 90.
Perhaps we should all just "keep it stock"-- the German engineers were
absolutely brilliant.
Cheers...... _________________ '69 Westy Camper
'59 Beetle
'64 Ghia
'70 Ghia
Street legal rail buggy
'70 Beetle Cabriolet
2014 Porsche Boxster S |
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NASkeet Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006 Posts: 2967 Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:21 am Post subject: |
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Randy in Maine wrote: |
I noticed this from the Berg website,
"Interesting that the factory Porsche and late 091 bus 5 speeds have the exact same design as ours. "
I was assuming that a 5 speed 091 might have come from South Africa, Mexico or perhaps a diesel vanagon? I don't know. |
On British specification, 1983~92/93 model VW Vanagons, 5-speed transaxles were a factory-stock specification with all 2•1 litre, fuel-injected, petrol engines (112 bhp @ 4800 rpm & 174 N.m @ 2800 rpm, C.R. = 10•5 : 1) and 1•6 litre turbo-diesel engines (70 bhp @ 4500 rpm & 138 N.m @ 2500 rpm). They were also a factory-fitted option for 1•9 litre, single-carburettor, petrol engines (78 bhp @ 4400 rpm & 150 N.m @ 2600 rpm, C.R. = 8•6 : 1) and 1•7 litre diesel engines (57 bhp @ 4500 rpm & 103 N.m @ 2800 rpm). In effect, one could obtain all post-1982, water-cooled VW Vanagon models, with 5-speed transmission, irrespective of engine specification.
You might also be interested to read some of the following topic threads, which include discussions and references, to using a 5-speed transaxle in a 1968~79 VW 1600 or 17/18/2000 Type 2:
Post subject: 5 speed trans for 78 Westy?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=239055&highlight=5speed+transaxle
Post subject: Engine RPM's on the hiway.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=225702&highlight=5speed+transaxle
Post subject: Stuffing the widest tires
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=250085&highlight=5speed+transaxle
westy78 wrote: |
Lui wrote: |
. New question: If I have planned extensive travelling at 65, what are good times to take breaks? -- i.e. let the engine "rest." Obviously not when the engine is really hot, but after every three hours on the highway? Four? Any thoughts? |
I think this depends more on the roads you are travelling, weather conditions, etc. I've driven over six hours at a time in my bus. If you have gauges and keep an ocassional eye on them and they are staying within the acceptable ranges, I say keep on truckin. These things were made to run. On the other hand if you are climbing major hills, one right after another and bucking a fierce head wind in hot air temps stopping every once in awhile might be a good idea. It all depends on the particular bus and how well in tune it's in. |
Unless you are leaking or burning excessive quantities of oil, your engine should not need a rest! If the engine is prone to overheating, then one would probably need to make cooling-off stops, about every ¼-hour or so!
Rest stops are more likely to be dictated by the need to top-up the fuel tank or to satisfy the needs of the driver(s) and/or passengers. Personally, I like to stop about every two hours or so, for perhaps 10~15 minutes, just to stretch my limbs and maybe visit a convenient, public convenience, which can often be found at motorway service areas and some laybys.
Driving on the motorways, tends to be rather soporific, so it's good to take regular breaks to minimise fatigue and loss of concentration. even better, is to avoid the motorways and take the scenic route, which might take longer in fact, but won't seem like it, because you won't get so bored. _________________ Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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stupidsongs2 Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2006 Posts: 550
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Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Waste of time, you shouldn't be cursing that fast anyway, wind resistance causes gas millage to drop considerably above 60MPH.
If you want to go fast, spend the money you would on a 5-speed and just buy another car. |
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WestyPop Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2005 Posts: 1732 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: RPM/fan speed |
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cbcarch wrote: |
Anyone ever thought of or heard of a larger diameter crank pulley?
i.e. the opposite effect of a smaller diameter "power pulley"... |
(from the 'Old Trick' Department)
For the '68-'71 bays, still with the upright 1600-based engines, you can swap the generator/alternator pulley to a smaller diameter unit, say one from a Porsche 356 series(or an early 912?). Probably not cheap these days, nor necessarily available at every VW parts swapmeet, but it works to speed up the cooling fan and bump up the output of the gen/alt as well.
J.R.
68 Westy
(+ others) |
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Bursch Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2006 Posts: 448 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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I would get a five speed to get a lower 1st. Not to gain more speed in 5th. When you encouter serious terrain, the stock 1st gear is too tall and your clutch wont like it if you decide to get your bus up there. _________________ 1978 T2b ASI Riviera Plan I // Camper Special with MegaSquirt & EDIS // 091 with 5.14 R/P and Peloquins LSD
Powered by Just Kampers, German Supply, Busted Bus & Aircooled Technology
2008: Amsterdam - Beijing - Olympics -- 17.500km
2010: Amsterdam - Cape Town - FIFA World Cup -- 26.000km
2014: New York - Rio de Janeiro - FIFA World Cup -- 28.000km
***********************
Camper Special Club Member |
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NASkeet Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006 Posts: 2967 Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:46 am Post subject: |
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Bursch wrote: |
I would get a five speed to get a lower 1st. Not to gain more speed in 5th. When you encounter serious terrain, the stock 1st gear is too tall and your clutch wont like it if you decide to get your bus up there. |
The British & European, 1983~92 VW 1900 Type 25 (i.e. T3 or Vanagon), 5-speed transaxle, would give one a 1st-gear ratio, almost the same as the 1968~79 VW 1600 Type 2 transaxle, whilst giving lower-revving in 5th gear than the 1976~79 VW 2000 Type 2's 4th gear.
Alternatively, the British & European, 1983~92 VW 1600 Type 25 (i.e. T3 or Vanagon) diesel, 5-speed transaxle, would give one a 1st-gear ratio, with a greater hill-climbing ability than the 1968~79 VW 1600 Type 2 transaxle, whilst giving a 5th-gear ratio, which enables marginally lower revving than the 1968~79 VW 1600 Type 2's 4th gear. _________________ Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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NASkeet Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006 Posts: 2967 Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:24 am Post subject: 1968~79 VW Type 2, five-speed transaxle transplant! |
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Here's a picture of the 1983~92 VW Type 25 (i.e. T3 or Vanagon) five-speed transaxle, as originally illustrated in the official VW (GB) Ltd. eight-page leaflet, "The new boxer engine for the Volkswagen Transporter and Bus", dated February 1983
Both the four-speed and five-speed transaxles, of the 1983~92 VW Type 25 (i.e. T3 or Vanagon) models, have a side-mounted gear-change mechanism. To use either of these transaxles in any of the 1968~79 VW Type 2s, one would either need to modify the transaxle, to employ the 1968~79 VW Type 2's longitudinal gear-selector mechanism or install the 1983~92 VW Type 25's gear-selector mechamism, into the host 1968~79 VW Type 2.
Although I have yet to confirm the accuracy of the statement, Paul Miller, proprietor of Harry Harpics, VW & Porsche workshop, in Westcliff-on-Sea, Essex, informed me sometime ago (at the September 2000, Essex VW Club Show), that one of his customers claims to have transplanted a 1983~9 VW Type 2, 5-speed transaxle, into a 1968~79 VW Type 2, without modifying the transaxle selector mechanism!
The following comments were made to me, by Richard Jones, of RJES (i.e. Richard Jones Engineered Solutions), in North Staffordshire, England, who amongst other things, markets a complete replacement clutch housing of his own design, for easy matching of Subaru engines, to the transaxles of rear-engined VWs. Richard's full-time day job, is as a design engineer for JCB.
R J Engineered Solutions,
Tel. +44 (0) 7761 788669
e-mail: [email protected]
http://www.rjes.com
T25 transaxles in bays
I'm pretty familiar with both bay and T25 transaxles. I have various ones lying around, as I'm planning some similar work, but with Beetles as recipients, not bays. The 5 speed is, unfortunately, too long for a Beetle, but the 091 4 speed from a 2 litre bay can be made to fit (they're very much stronger). However, it is not a straight forward conversion, only really suitable for racers at present. One customer has just fitted one. However, I intend to see whether I can re-engineer the shift mechanism of an 091 to solve the problems associated with Beetle installation.
Regarding 5 speeds into bays, I wouldn't be surprised if it is possible. The 5th gear occupies the space where the 4 speed shift mechanism was, hence the side mounted shift on 5 speeds. The rod is so low on a T25, you could probably make it go under the torsion tube in a bay without too much trouble.
Richard informed me, that all the clutch housings from the transaxles of all rear-engined Volkswagens, can be interchanged. To use the five-speed transaxle from the diesel-engined, 1983~92 VW Type 25 (i.e. T3 or Vanagon), with a 1968~79 VW 1600 Type 2 or 1972~79 VW 17/18/2000 Type 2 engine, one would need to substitute the clutch housing, from the air-cooled engine's matching four-speed transaxle or any one of the four-speed or five-speed tansaxles, from the air-cooled or water-cooled, flat-four, petrol-engined, 1980~92 VW Type 25s. Bear in mind that early-model, 1983~92 VW 1900 Type 25, water-cooled petrol engines, used a 215 mm clutch; the later models employing the 228 mm clutch, in common with the 1985~92 VW 2100 Type 25.
The following Internet website link, gives a comprehensive listing (might not be absolutely complete) of 1980~92 VW Type 25s and the later South African 1993~2003 VW Type 25s.
http://www.syncro.org/FinalDriveRatios.htm
As a general summary, the 1983~92 VW Type 25 models, with 185 R14 tyres, 5-speed manual transmission & rear-wheel drive, tend to have either of following combinations of gear & final-drive ratios:
R 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th F.D.
48 bhp, 1588 cc, diesel, 185 R14 tyres 3•67 4•11 2•33 1•48 1•02 0•77 5•43
57 bhp, 1715 cc, diesel, 185 R14 tyres 3•67 4•11 2•33 1•48 1•02 0•77 5•50
78 bhp, 1913 cc petrol, 185 R14 tyres 3•67 4•11 2•33 1•48 1•02 0•77 4•83
70 bhp, 1588 c2c, turbodiesel, 185 R14 tyres 3•67 4•11 2•33 1•48 1•02 0•82 4•83
112 bhp, 2109 cc, petrol, 185 R14 tyres 3•67 4•11 2•33 1•48 1•02 0•82 4•57
When used in conjunction with tyre sizes, of standard or close to standard specification (e.g. 185 R14 aka 185/80 R14 or 195/70 R15, 215/65 R15, 195/65 R16 or 205/60 R16), these selections of five-speed transaxle gear & final-drive ratio combinations, seem reasonably well matched to the various standard, or moderately upgraded, air-cooled engines, providing closer-spaced ratios, plus more relaxed, 65~70 mph motorway cruising in 5th gear (for all but the low-power engines, which would have insufficient power, at low engine speed) and greater hill-climbing ability in 1st gear. These would certainly be better suited, than the early 902 or 915, Porsche 911 five-speed transaxles, whose standard ratios are ill matched to the VW Type 2 and are exceedingly expensive, even at second-hand prices.
My Swedish university-friend Kjell (we both studied in the School of Mechanical Engineering, at Cranfield Institute of Technology, during the early 1980s), who until a few years ago, was a long-serving Scania truck transmission designer, informed me that low engine-power output, combined with large vehicle weight and high aerodynamic drag (typical VW Type 2 circumstances!), necessitates a greater number of gears!
The transaxles (with appropriate, substituted clutch housing) from the 48 bhp, 57 bhp and 70 bhp diesel or turbodiesel engines, could reasonably be used with the standard 1584 cc (50 bhp), 1679 cc (66 bhp), 1795 cc (68 bhp) or 1970 cc (70 bhp) air-cooled engines, whilst those of the 78 bhp or 112 bhp engine, would be more appropriate for moderately upgraded air-cooled engines, such as my 1911 cc (estimated 91 bhp!?!), modified hybrid VW Type 2 & 4 engine (VW 411LE crankcase with internals, NPR 96 mm-bore pistons & cylinder barrels and "gas-flowed" VW 1800 Type 2 cylinder heads) or various manifestations of the upgraded VW Type 4, 2055 cc and 2260 cc alternatives (96 mm-bore pistons & cylinder barrels, with either 71 mm or 78 mm stroke crankshaft).
1972~79 VW 1600 Type 2 & 1972~73 VW 1700 Type 2, four-speed transaxle:
Final-drive ratio = 5•375
4th gear ratio = 0•82
4th to 3rd x factor = 1•54
3rd gear ratio = 1•26
3rd to 2nd x factor = 1•64
2nd gear ratio = 2•06
2nd to 1st x factor = 1•84
1st gear ratio = 3•80
Overall gear ratio = individual gear ratio x final-drive ratio
4th gear overall ratio = 4•41
4th to 3rd x factor = 1•54
3rd gear overall ratio = 6•77
3rd to 2nd x factor = 1•64
2nd gear overall ratio = 11•07
2nd to 1st x factor = 1•84
1st gear overall ratio = 20•42
1974~75 VW 1800 Type 2, four-speed transaxle:
Final-drive ratio = 4•857
4th gear ratio = 0•89
4th to 3rd x factor = 1•42
3rd gear ratio = 1•26
3rd to 2nd x factor = 1•64
2nd gear ratio = 2•06
2nd to 1st x factor = 1•83
1st gear ratio = 3•78
Overall gear ratio = individual gear ratio x final-drive ratio
4th gear overall ratio = 4•32
4th to 3rd x factor = 1•42
3rd gear overall ratio = 6•12
3rd to 2nd x factor = 1•64
2nd gear overall ratio = 10•01
2nd to 1st x factor = 1•83
1st gear overall ratio = 18•36
1976~79 VW 2000 Type 2, four-speed transaxle:
Final-drive ratio = 4•571
4th gear ratio = 0•88
4th to 3rd x factor = 1•43
3rd gear ratio = 1•26
3rd to 2nd x factor = 1•64
2nd gear ratio = 2•06
2nd to 1st x factor = 1•83
1st gear ratio = 3•78
Overall gear ratio = individual gear ratio x final-drive ratio
4th gear overall ratio = 4•04
4th to 3rd x factor = 1•43
3rd gear overall ratio = 5•76
3rd to 2nd x factor = 1•64
2nd gear overall ratio = 9•42
2nd to 1st x factor = 1•83
1st gear overall ratio = 17•3
1987 etc VW 1700 Vanagon (diesel), five-speed transaxle:
Final-drive ratio = 5•50
5th gear ratio = 0•77
5th to 4th x factor = 1•32
4th gear ratio = 1•02
4th to 3rd x factor = 1•45
3rd gear ratio = 1•48
3rd to 2nd x factor = 1•57
2nd gear ratio = 2•33
2nd to 1st x factor = 1•76
1st gear ratio = 4•11
Overall gear ratio = individual gear ratio x final-drive ratio
5th gear overall ratio = 4•24
5th to 4th x factor = 1•32
4th gear overall ratio = 5•61
4th to 3rd x factor = 1•45
3rd gear overall ratio = 8•14
3rd to 2nd x factor = 1•57
2nd gear overall ratio = 12•82
2nd to 1st x factor = 1•76
1st gear overall ratio = 22•60
1987 etc VW 1600 Vanagon (turbodiesel), five-speed transaxle:
Final-drive ratio = 4•83
5th gear ratio = 0•82
5th to 4th x factor = 1•24
4th gear ratio = 1•02
4th to 3rd x factor = 1•45
3rd gear ratio = 1•48
3rd to 2nd x factor = 1•57
2nd gear ratio = 2•33
2nd to 1st x factor = 1•76
1st gear ratio = 4•11
Overall gear ratio = individual gear ratio x final-drive ratio
5th gear overall ratio = 3•96
5th to 4th x factor = 1•24
4th gear overall ratio = 4•93
4th to 3rd x factor = 1•45
3rd gear overall ratio = 7•15
3rd to 2nd x factor = 1•57
2nd gear overall ratio = 11•25
2nd to 1st x factor = 1•76
1st gear overall ratio = 19•85
1987 etc VW 1900 Vanagon (petrol), five-speed transaxle:
Final-drive ratio = 4•83
5th gear ratio = 0•77
5th to 4th x factor = 1•32
4th gear ratio = 1•02
4th to 3rd x factor = 1•45
3rd gear ratio = 1•48
3rd to 2nd x factor = 1•57
2nd gear ratio = 2•33
2nd to 1st x factor = 1•76
1st gear ratio = 4•11
Overall gear ratio = individual gear ratio x final-drive ratio
5th gear overall ratio = 3•72
5th to 4th x factor = 1•32
4th gear overall ratio = 4•93
4th to 3rd x factor = 1•45
3rd gear overall ratio = 7•15
3rd to 2nd x factor = 1•57
2nd gear overall ratio = 11•25
2nd to 1st x factor = 1•76
1st gear overall ratio = 19•85
1987 etc VW 2100 Vanagon (petrol - EFI), five-speed transaxle:
Final-drive ratio = 4•57
5th gear ratio = 0•82
5th to 4th x factor = 1•24
4th gear ratio = 1•02
4th to 3rd x factor = 1•45
3rd gear ratio = 1•48
3rd to 2nd x factor = 1•57
2nd gear ratio = 2•33
2nd to 1st x factor = 1•76
1st gear ratio = 4•11
Overall gear ratio = individual gear ratio x final-drive ratio
5th gear overall ratio = 3•75
5th to 4th x factor = 1•24
4th gear overall ratio = 4•66
4th to 3rd x factor = 1•45
3rd gear overall ratio = 6•76
3rd to 2nd x factor = 1•57
2nd gear overall ratio = 11•65
2nd to 1st x factor = 1•76
1st gear overall ratio = 18•78 _________________ Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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Bursch Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2006 Posts: 448 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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Very useful information Nigel!
Changing to vanagan can't be easy since you never see it around.
Soooo, will a 091 bellhousing fit a vanagon transaxle? _________________ 1978 T2b ASI Riviera Plan I // Camper Special with MegaSquirt & EDIS // 091 with 5.14 R/P and Peloquins LSD
Powered by Just Kampers, German Supply, Busted Bus & Aircooled Technology
2008: Amsterdam - Beijing - Olympics -- 17.500km
2010: Amsterdam - Cape Town - FIFA World Cup -- 26.000km
2014: New York - Rio de Janeiro - FIFA World Cup -- 28.000km
***********************
Camper Special Club Member |
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Bleyseng Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2005 Posts: 4752 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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Changing to a 901 can't be to hard as most of it bolts up. The shifter on a 911/912 901 exits out the back close to a 091 tranny. A little mod is necessary but works from what I have heard. 901 gears are easy to obtain and fairly cheap but not the parts for a rebuild anymore. The 901 is a stout tranny taking upto 300hp without a problem. The shift pattern is the same as the vanagon 5 speed.
I had toyed with this swap as I have a few extra 901 laying around but went ahead with rebuilding and adding LSD to the 901 as its geared just fine with the Camper Special. Even 1st is fine now with the LSD as I can climb steep gravel roads without one wheel loosing traction. _________________ 70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles |
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Air_Cooled_Nut Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004 Posts: 3040 Location: Portland, Oregon
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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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For those interested in custom gearing, here's an Excel application I made, free to download:
http://excel.icbm.org/applications.html
I used the earlier version for my TIII 5-speed. Truth be told, there's nothing like experiencing the real thing. Sometimes numbers on paper just don't tell you enough compared to what your body can experience. _________________ Toby http://www.aircoolednut.com/
Did I mention that I'm an original Darksider?
'72 VW Squareback, 2007cc, GB 5-speed, rag top; '76 VW Riviera Penthouse Sundowner 2.0L; 2015 Audi S5 Cabby w/Stage II APR; '06 Ducati Sport Classic 1000; '14 Ducati Diavel Strada
The First Invasion |
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NASkeet Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006 Posts: 2967 Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:40 am Post subject: 1968~79 VW Type 2, five-speed transaxle transplant! |
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Bleyseng wrote: |
Changing to a 901 can't be to hard as most of it bolts up. The shifter on a 911/912 901 exits out the back close to a 091 tranny. A little mod is necessary but works from what I have heard. 901 gears are easy to obtain and fairly cheap but not the parts for a rebuild anymore. The 901 is a stout tranny taking upto 300hp without a problem. The shift pattern is the same as the vanagon 5 speed.
I had toyed with this swap as I have a few extra 901 laying around but went ahead with rebuilding and adding LSD to the 901 as its geared just fine with the Camper Special. Even 1st is fine now with the LSD as I can climb steep gravel roads without one wheel loosing traction. |
One seldom sees Porsche 911s on the road here and I've only seen two VW-Porsche 914s during the past 30 years or so, of which one was a Danish registered, left-hand drive VW-Porsche 914-6.
Second-hand transaxles, originating from rear-engined Porsche 911s or mid-engined VW-Porsche 914s, are far from common here and likely to be extremely expensive. However, I would be interested to learn of the factory-stock gear & final drive ratios in addition to the custom replacement options. _________________ Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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Bleyseng Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2005 Posts: 4752 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:57 am Post subject: |
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http://members.rennlist.com/chuxter/901&915ratios.htm
The 901 tranny is designed so the gear stack can be removed without removing the whole tranny but this is for mid engine designed cars not a bus.
Gear ratios are available and plentiful, of course the oddball gears are expensive as Porsche made limited quanities of them for racing.
Standard ratios (found in production cars) are fairly cheap.
I run a close ratio gear box in my 914- A,F,M,S,ZD. _________________ 70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles |
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NASkeet Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006 Posts: 2967 Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:05 am Post subject: 1968~79 VW Type 2, five-speed transaxle transplant! |
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Bleyseng wrote: |
http://members.rennlist.com/chuxter/901&915ratios.htm
The 901 tranny is designed so the gear stack can be removed without removing the whole tranny but this is for mid engine designed cars not a bus.
Gear ratios are available and plentiful, of course the oddball gears are expensive as Porsche made limited quanities of them for racing.
Standard ratios (found in production cars) are fairly cheap.
I run a close ratio gear box in my 914- A,F,M,S,ZD. |
From what I have read in British VW magazines, a second-hand Porsche 901 or 915 five-speed transaxle, would typically cost £500 (i.e. > US$1,000) for a very cheap one, but more likely £1000 (i.e. > US$2,000).
How does one decipher the chart, at the aforementioned link, to elucidate the numerical values for the individual Reverse, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th & Final Drive gear ratios. The chart as presented, is one of the least clear presentations of information, I have encountered! _________________ Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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Bleyseng Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2005 Posts: 4752 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:07 am Post subject: |
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Used 901's go for $200-300 dollars as most need some work. Most guys find a another used one and swap parts to make a decent one.
Rebuilds cost about $2000 but thats mostly due to part cost. New parts are $$$$.
Even in Holland (where I visit family yearly) 901's are cheap. Parts sourced from Germany are cheaper.
The 4's mean the stock gear sets for a 914 4.
The 6's mean the stock gear sets for a 914 6.
The rest are all the gear set made and there was alot of them as the 901 was used in lots of race cars. _________________ 70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles |
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alikatcraig Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2007 Posts: 556 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=504197
This is a new intermediate housing to convert your bus box to 5 speed.
Lui is running a 1976 motor which came with a 4.57 R&P/0.88 4th with a box that has a 5.375 R&P and 0.82 4th. There should be some room to play with gearing in there and still keep RPM high enough to cool the motor. I will post a gear calculator link Monday that really helps.
I have just swapped out my bug 4.37 R&P with 0.93 4th for a 3.875 and 0.89 4th. It has a 2l motor and will still turn enough RPM at 70 to cool it. Also the motor is not as strained getting there, as anyone who has ever overloaded a VW will know. |
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NASkeet Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006 Posts: 2967 Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:13 am Post subject: 1968~79 VW Type 2, five-speed transaxle transplant! |
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alikatcraig wrote: |
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=504197
This is a new intermediate housing to convert your bus box to 5 speed.
Lui is running a 1976 motor which came with a 4.57 R&P/0.88 4th with a box that has a 5.375 R&P and 0.82 4th. There should be some room to play with gearing in there and still keep RPM high enough to cool the motor. I will post a gear calculator link Monday that really helps.
I have just swapped out my bug 4.37 R&P with 0.93 4th for a 3.875 and 0.89 4th. It has a 2l motor and will still turn enough RPM at 70 to cool it. Also the motor is not as strained getting there, as anyone who has ever overloaded a VW will know. |
An interesting idea, but at US$1995 (i.e. more that £1,100 at present currency exchange rates!) for the kit, it's way out of my league!
Noting the following statement in the advertisement, the kit is still not yet appropriate for the 1968~79 VW 1600 & 17/18/2000 Type 2.
Currently fits Sedan and 1967 and earlier Bus only.
This further statement, would also render the project rather inconvenient and more expensive, for owners outside of North America.
We will also require your pinion & mainshafts for lengthening. _________________ Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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lookitsjeff75 Samba Member
Joined: September 27, 2009 Posts: 3 Location: Napa, CA
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Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:23 pm Post subject: Am I safe to go 60? |
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My '72 Transporter has a four speed, but whenever I try to go the speed limit (60) the engine seems to just be screaming, and I can't imagine that being a normal noise to hear at that speed. Do I need a 5-speed tranny, or just a lower gear ratio? I'm open to any suggestions! |
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cobhc619 Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2005 Posts: 280 Location: SD, California
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:41 am Post subject: Re: Am I safe to go 60? |
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lookitsjeff75 wrote: |
My '72 Transporter has a four speed, but whenever I try to go the speed limit (60) the engine seems to just be screaming, and I can't imagine that being a normal noise to hear at that speed. Do I need a 5-speed tranny, or just a lower gear ratio? I'm open to any suggestions! |
Yea mine too but i'm thinking it could be my beat up exhaust making it sound bad.
Seen a few threads about engine operating conditions and top speed/cruising speed... Is it possible that VW said the top speed and cruising speed are like 70-75 so their vehicles would comply with I guess U.S regulations back in the day even though the engines are happier and last longer if you cruise around 60-65?? Saying the top speed is cruising speed seems like saying a hondas cruising speed is at 6k RPM.. Just wondering _________________ 1970 Baja
1973 Westy |
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