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Batan
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 Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:44 pm Post subject: Quick 31-pict-3 photo question |
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What screws in from the right side(by the float bowl) in the spot marked by red arrow? It's missing I'm not a big fan of carbs. lol Can't find an exploded view of 31 carb.
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dti
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:45 am Post subject: |
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If its a threaded hole it may be a jet. I have an H30/31 sitting in front of me and it looks like its made from the same casting as the carb in your photo, and it has a jet screwed into the boss you marked out.
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rockerarm
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| Batan, there was a 2 to 3 year span ('68, '69, & '70) I believe that on the right side of that carb, it had TWO idle ( or pilot ) jets installed. The factory installed carbs had an electric solenoid pilot jet to control "run on" when a warm engine was turned off. the second jet installed at that 45 degree angle was a standard jet, with a typical .45mm, .55mm hole. The electric idle jet had a huge hole in it, that was not consistent with other electric idle jets. They were not interchangeable. I do not recall what the reason for the two jets, as earlier carbs only had one jet. I do not recall if any of the aftermarket carbs ( like brosol ) had the same two jet set up. In '71, when the factory went to the dual port head motor in the USA, the 34PICT carb did not have two idle jets. It was just that couple of years with the single port engine. Hope that answers your question. Bill |
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Batan
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:39 am Post subject: |
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Hi, thanks for the input guys. This solex 31PICT3 carb I got from somebody so I'm not sure what it came off of but it's supposed to be rebuilt, however it's untested. The original 30PICT needed help really bad.
The hole is threaded.
Reason I noticed that is that once the choke is off(after 3 minutes or so of idling), the engine dies. For that reason I started looking into the carb and noticed that hole might be missing something.
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rockerarm
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:55 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, a 31mm carb is not factory, which is no big deal. If that hole is threaded, it probably had an idle jet in it. As I said earlier, of those two jets, one had a standard 1/2mm hole and the other had a huge hole in it. With the original carb, where one jet was electric and the other was a typical jet, it was easy to determine which one went in its correct hole. But, with both jets being standard jets, since the threads are the same, it could be easy to put wrong jet in wrong hole.
On the lighter side, if you are not a fan of carbs, how you get into VW's ??
He-he. Bill |
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borninabus 
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 7:29 am Post subject: |
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ok...
what carb is it? it's a 31-3? an H30/31?
into that hole should go a 60 idle jet the other one should be a 50 or 55.
the 31-3 was the best of the 31 series carbs.
it's the one that the H30 is modeled after.
what was wrong with your 30PICT?
it's a better carb than the one you've got now.
don't give up on it so eaisily.
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keifernet
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| borninabus wrote: |
ok...
what carb is it? it's a 31-3? an H30/31?
into that hole should go a 60 idle jet the other one should be a 50 or 55.
the 31-3 was the best of the 31 series carbs.
it's the one that the H30 is modeled after.
what was wrong with your 30PICT?
it's a better carb than the one you've got now.
don't give up on it so eaisily. |
Should be a plain ol brass idle pilot ( not an electromagnetic one like the 30 pict -3) straight in the side. a 55, the one that goes in at an angle should be a 65. ( same set up as the H30/31 which as ^ stated was patterned off the 31 pict-3 )
The 31 pict-3 was not a USA spec carb. It was used in Europe and other countries on the smaller 1300cc DUAL PORT engines with the smaller sized intake center section. Some of these engines and parts migrated over here over the years though so you see some of them from time to time.
Andy (glutamodo) has a chart and some info in this thread about the different versions of the 30 pict -3 ( and the one first pictured in the thread is a very late Euro spec one and has the air bypass solenoid like the 31 pict-3 and the H30/31)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=367107&highlight=pict3 |
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borninabus
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| keifernet wrote: |
| ...straight in the side...a 55, the one that goes in at an angle should be a 65. |
thanks for watching my back, keith. i have a hard time remembering until the carb is on the car and running...
when it becomes very obvious that you've got them right or wrong 
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Batan
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks guys.
| borninabus wrote: |
ok...
what was wrong with your 30PICT?
it's a better carb than the one you've got now.
don't give up on it so eaisily. |
It literally was falling apart as I was driving the Bus home from Oregon where I bought it. It ended up losing the accelerator pump jet and pieces of linkage. When I got home, I was like holy hell, how the hell did it even run!
| keifernet wrote: |
| borninabus wrote: |
ok...
what carb is it? it's a 31-3? an H30/31?
into that hole should go a 60 idle jet the other one should be a 50 or 55.
the 31-3 was the best of the 31 series carbs.
it's the one that the H30 is modeled after.
what was wrong with your 30PICT?
it's a better carb than the one you've got now.
don't give up on it so eaisily. |
Should be a plain ol brass idle pilot ( not an electromagnetic one like the 30 pict -3) straight in the side. a 55, the one that goes in at an angle should be a 65. ( same set up as the H30/31 which as ^ stated was patterned off the 31 pict-3 )
The 31 pict-3 was not a USA spec carb. It was used in Europe and other countries on the smaller 1300cc DUAL PORT engines with the smaller sized intake center section. Some of these engines and parts migrated over here over the years though so you see some of them from time to time.
Andy (glutamodo) has a chart and some info in this thread about the different versions of the 30 pict -3 ( and the one first pictured in the thread is a very late Euro spec one and has the air bypass solenoid like the 31 pict-3 and the H30/31)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=367107&highlight=pict3 |
What's the idle jet on the original 30-3? Maybe I can use that.
What would the consequence of a missing idle jet be anyway? It was not leaking that I could see and as I said it won't idle when it comes off choke. I discovered that after changing the fuel hoses and filter and changing the choke on the carb because the old choke seemed to have a very loose terminal I suspected to be broken. It now idles while warming up, but not when warm.
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Amskeptic
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Batan wrote: |
What's the idle jet on the original 30-3? Maybe I can use that.
It now idles while warming up, but not when warm. |
Let's be careful with our numbers for the sake of clarity.
There is no original 30 Pict3.
The "Pict" number describes the number of circuits in the carb, the which why wherefore I do not know but this, if you see a Pict 2, it does not have the air bypass idle circuit. It controlled run-on at shut-off with the little pilot jet cut-off solenoid on the right side of the carb.
A Pict 2 idle is controlled soley through the throttle plate opening which is adjusted at the screw on the lever up until August of '69 for buses.
If you see a Pict 3, it will have that big screw that controls idle speed via a passage around the throttle plate. From August 1969 onwards. It controls run-on at shut-off by shutting down the entire idle circuit with that big plunger shut-off solenoid. ***
The first number has to do with venturi size. Most of us were at 28 then 30 and the '71 model year had the 34 Pict 3. Replacement carbs coming from other countries will have the Pict 3 throttle bypass and I have seen 30/31 and 34. Keith?
Colin
(*** . . . speaking of which, this thing can test incorrect off the car, and work fine on the car. That is because it must have a little tiny preload on the plunger when it is screwed in or it will not retract correctly under voltage. A lousy ground through the threads or a rubber sealing donut that does not allow the plunger to have that little bit of preload when installed, can kill your idle dead)
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Batan
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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OK, you are right, I shouldn't say "original". I know that the motor in the Bus is out of a 70 so it's not original either. The carb I had(that "fell apart") was a Solex 30 PICT-3. The one on there now is Solex 31 PICT-3.
And thanks for that PICT brakedown. 
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borninabus
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Batan wrote: |
| It literally was falling apart as I was driving the Bus home from Oregon where I bought it. It ended up losing the accelerator pump jet and pieces of linkage. When I got home, I was like holy hell, how the hell did it even run! |
where's the accel pump jet? inside the engine?
it won't idle because there is a huge vacuum leak in the idle circuit
a 50 would serve you well in the empty hole. if not a, 55 will be ok.
the angled one could be either a 55 or 60 or a 65. you'll have to see what runs best.
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Batan
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| borninabus wrote: |
| Batan wrote: |
| It literally was falling apart as I was driving the Bus home from Oregon where I bought it. It ended up losing the accelerator pump jet and pieces of linkage. When I got home, I was like holy hell, how the hell did it even run! |
where's the accel pump jet? inside the engine?
it won't idle because there is a huge vacuum leak in the idle circuit
a 50 would serve you well in the empty hole. if not a, 55 will be ok.
the angled one could be either a 55 or 60 or a 65. you'll have to see what runs best. |
Yep, it swallowed it at some point during the trip home last July. Haven't gotten around of pulling the plugs yet to see if it banged up a spark plug wherever it went through.
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borninabus
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:11 am Post subject: |
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 you'd better get your heads off before you run it anymore
if it's not embedded to the top of one of your pistons you may have lucked out and it's hung up in the intake somewhere.
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Batan
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| borninabus wrote: |
you'd better get your heads off before you run it anymore
if it's not embedded to the top of one of your pistons you may have lucked out and it's hung up in the intake somewhere. |
Couple of hundred miles with it in there, I doubt it's not chewed up by now. From what I understand, they rarely do damage and it's somewhat common for them to fall in.
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Bookwus
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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Hiya CK,
| Amskeptic wrote: |
There is no original 30 Pict3.
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Say what? I'm running a couple of Solex 30PICT3s. Did I miss something here?
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borninabus
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Batan wrote: |
| Couple of hundred miles with it in there, I doubt it's not chewed up by now. From what I understand, they rarely do damage and it's somewhat common for them to fall in. |
well...it ain't my roadtrip, man :shrug:
| Bookwus wrote: |
| Say what? I'm running a couple of Solex 30PICT3s. Did I miss something here? |
doesn't sound like it.
do you find it practical to have both idle jets installed when running the engine?
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Bookwus
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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Hiya born,
Both of my 30PICT3s are set up with the electromagnetic cutoff valve......
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Batan
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, I got the idle jet from the 30PICT I have in pieces and after warming it up, bumped up the idle a bit and it idles now.
I can feel it will have off the line hesitation issues but we will see after I have a chance to run it on the street. It's got a 009 so it might be an uphill battle with that.
It sucks because I can't run it in my underground parkade for more then a couple of minutes and I can't take it out on the street because it hasn't been taken through import inspection yet. Goddamn catch 22...  
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keifernet
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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Did you replace the missing brass shooter tube for the accel pump?
They can and do pass through the engine workings most times without doing any harm so if your a few hundred miles beyond that it's likely passed like a kidney stone....
But not having one in place will give you a MAJOR hesitation.
Too much confusion on 30 pict 3 and 31 pict 3 going on in this thread. (apologies for my part I was trying to point out differences not similarities)
I would not run an electromagnetic jet in that spot (RH side) on a
31 pict3 it was not designed to have one there. |
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