| Are aircooled motors kept in bajas because they're better or just easier? |
| Better |
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24% |
[ 7 ] |
| Easier |
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75% |
[ 22 ] |
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| Total Votes : 29 |
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ts39136
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Joined: January 30, 2010
Posts: 735
Location: Pocatello, Idaho
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 Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I wanted a baja and he wanted a lowrider |
EA82 EA82 EA82 EA82 EA82 EA82 EA82 EA82 EA82 EA82 EA82 EA82 EA82 EA82
Sounds like a worthwhile goal. So who's going to win? Baja or butt-scraper?
EA82 EA82 EA82 EA82 EA82 EA82 EA82 EA82 EA82 EA82 EA82 EA82 EA82 EA82
Testing out subliminal messages...
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STOICH
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Joined: November 26, 2004
Posts: 1100
Location: Fallbrook
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| Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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in my opinion, the fruit comes earlier with the aircooled option, that is for sure. Once an EFI water cooler is installed properly, your maintenance is (almost) done.... Maybe plugs, and stuff, but I have never had to adjust my valves on my "bunny" motors, the leaking valve covers are a thing of the past, banging second gear and pulling the fan in to the shroud is gone, blowing out jets, geez, im almost feeling nostalgic....
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63 ragtop baja
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2010
Posts: 24
Location: Monrovia/Ontario
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| Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| in my opinion, the fruit comes earlier with the aircooled option, that is for sure. |
Now that is a sentiment I greatly underestimated at first. Now its like a hot poker in my ear.
I talked to Rancho Performance today and it turns out that it is Mike's expert opinion that if I were to run a N/A EJ25 I would need at least a rebuilt 6 rib with chromoly diff at least(retail $2100). So, I have set aside about $1,000 so far for a reverse ring and pinion at least. Its more than enough work for a bucket full of midgets, so the month is going to be a buisy one for me. |
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CBDZ_CBDZ
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Joined: December 27, 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Eastvale, CA
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kbwakesk8
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Joined: December 08, 2005
Posts: 1499
Location: Hacienda Heights CA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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VERY COOL
wonder what the coil pack system goes for. |
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GeorgeL
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Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 7346
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Dale M. wrote: |
| Let me see, you want to replace modern efficient EFI with old school poor efficiency carbs and doctor up "something" to work as ignition.... |
This doesn't seem too bright to me, either.
Check this out:
http://www.sdsefi.com
They have the manuals on-line for their system. Running an aftermarket ECU is like having an unlimited supply of carb and distributor tuning parts in your toolbox at all times. You can tailor your own mixture and advance curves in any way you want and, unlike carbs and distributors, changing one parameter doesn't mess up the other parameters.
http://www.sdsefi.com/program.html
Yes, it's pricey, but you're buying the equivalent of a set of carburetors, a distributor and coils as well as all the tuning parts to go with them. In the case of the subaru you're also avoiding the cost of making manifolds and distributor mounts. I think that you'll end up spending more in the end on the carb setup |
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STOICH
Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2004
Posts: 1100
Location: Fallbrook
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| GeorgeL wrote: |
| Dale M. wrote: |
| Let me see, you want to replace modern efficient EFI with old school poor efficiency carbs and doctor up "something" to work as ignition.... |
Running an aftermarket ECU is like having an unlimited supply of carb and distributor tuning parts in your toolbox at all times. You can tailor your own mixture and advance curves in any way you want and, unlike carbs and distributors, changing one parameter doesn't mess up the other parameters. Yes, it's pricey, but you're buying the equivalent of a set of carburetors, a distributor and coils as well as all the tuning parts to go with them. In the case of the subaru you're also avoiding the cost of making manifolds and distributor mounts. I think that you'll end up spending more in the end on the carb setup |
Don't know if I could have said this much better myself...
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veeweeman
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Joined: December 20, 2009
Posts: 940
Location: New Port Richey, FL
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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I thought this was a AirCooled VW forum  ...why are we discussing Subaru's ...the poll seems to be against anything other then VW, so why don't you use the money you do have and build a nice clean reliable VW engine...you can buy a complete short block with hydraulic lifters if spending 15 minutes to adjust your valves is too much effort...electronic ignition and even fuel injection for the air cooled VW will make it plenty reliable and trouble free...parts are parts and the VW is plenty reliable and have been proven time and time again...what makes any motor more reliable then the other is the components that you bolt to it that make it run, spark and fuel!...if you look at the 96 and up Chevy stuff you can use 98% of stock components that you can use to EFI your VW and Ford has a EDIS crank trigger wheel that can be adapted to your VW or I can tell you where you can buy a pulley with the crank trigger ready to go and adapt it to the Chevy ECM...much cheaper then buying an adapter plate and another motor and adding a radiator to your VW plus you'll have to redo the wiring anyway |
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STOICH
Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2004
Posts: 1100
Location: Fallbrook
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| veeweeman wrote: |
I thought this was a AirCooled VW forum
"It just says "HBB Offroad" on the door 
...why are we discussing Subaru's ...the poll seems to be against anything other then VW, so why don't you use the money you do have and build a nice clean reliable VW engine...you can buy a complete short block with hydraulic lifters if spending 15 minutes to adjust your valves is too much effort...electronic ignition and even fuel injection for the air cooled VW will make it plenty reliable and trouble free...parts are parts and the VW is plenty reliable and have been proven time and time again...what makes any motor more reliable then the other is the components that you bolt to it that make it run, spark and fuel!...if you look at the 96 and up Chevy stuff you can use 98% of stock components that you can use to EFI your VW and Ford has a EDIS crank trigger wheel that can be adapted to your VW or I can tell you where you can buy a pulley with the crank trigger ready to go and adapt it to the Chevy ECM...much cheaper then buying an adapter plate and another motor and adding a radiator to your VW plus you'll have to redo the wiring anyway |
however, I don't disagree with anything you've said... I myself would like more info on the ford crank trigger trick. I do prefer to run aircooled in my street cars, and this poll aside, have no real love for water cooled other than offroad abuse-ability. Please do post the ford/chevy stuff you mentioned. I made most of my efi system myself, but would still like to convert over to a crank trigger rather than the hall-effect sensor Im using currently 
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veeweeman
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Joined: December 20, 2009
Posts: 940
Location: New Port Richey, FL
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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Another option you can do to your VW to make it go and reliable;
http://www.buyracingparts.com/induction/efi-kits-a...e-kit.html
All you will need to do is add an external oil cooler and fan with a fitting to install the coolant temp switch in...and find any center manifold that will fit a Holley carb and your set...this system will work with any engine and is good up to 600HP! and to top it off you don't even need a computer to set it up or tune it to your engine, it learns all on its own!...this is the system I will be getting soon for my own project. |
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kbwakesk8
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Joined: December 08, 2005
Posts: 1499
Location: Hacienda Heights CA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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It is all about cost fuel injected subi 5 to 6k starting
1200 is just in wireharnes and computer the question is how much can you save going carborated.
I was building a 2L turbo subi they are not a cheap build. |
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ts39136
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2010
Posts: 735
Location: Pocatello, Idaho
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| kbwakesk8 wrote: |
| It is all about cost fuel injected subi 5 to 6k |
Ummmm... Buy baja, rebuild brakes+bearings, add subaru with wire harness, repalce interior, full line of guages, new front tires, new lights, bilstein shocks, mounts, etc., etc. Total investment $3000.
Subaru conversion - $1250... VW rebuild (very basic) - $1600 (plus $100 for the new carb I would have needed)
Just trying to dispell rumors.
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63 ragtop baja
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Joined: September 28, 2010
Posts: 24
Location: Monrovia/Ontario
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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I thought this was a AirCooled VW forum Laughing Laughing ...why are we discussing Subaru's Laughing...
if you look at the 96 and up Chevy stuff...
and Ford has a EDIS crank trigger wheel that can be adapted to your VW...
and adapt it to the Chevy ECM...
the poll seems to be against anything other then VW
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yea I get your point, get a bug, THEEEEEEN adapt ford AND chevy parts on it...entirely different than the concept of running a complete subaru engine 
also, the poll is phrased that way because of the sentiment you expressed in regards to a subbug project. its one ive gotten alot when i say vw baja and subaru in the same sentence
| Quote: |
| other than offroad abuse-ability |
thats why a subbi!!! 
| Quote: |
| This doesn't seem too bright to me, either. |
now, while i would admit it would be much less efficient to carb an ej than its stock ecu, and it also hasnt been done by shit tons of people, and theres no performance gain on the stock ej with computer...I ALSO SAID IT WOULD BE FUN TO OWN. did you not own legos as a kid because they didnt help you learn your abc's?
i whole heartedly agree with you about running an aftermarket ecu, but its not what interestes me. like for instance, i wont install 3x3's on my car and run super dope shocks through the car because i just dont want to. i will however install 3x3's onto my bug and build a subframe for the shocks because that is what i want.
| Quote: |
| is good up to 600HP! |
then i need a tranny that can handle 600hp and not do backflips when i shift.
| Quote: |
| It is all about cost |
not so much. when i first saw the carbureted ej project it excited me until i saw that there was no "Direct Install". me installing a kit for it to be carb'd is neat to me, rebuilding an engine to do it isnt.
| Quote: |
| Subaru conversion - $1250 |
1250 for everything except the engine.
just trying to dispell rumors.
look, as it stands, i will have a 98 subaru legacy 5spd by next week which i plan to remove the engine and transmission and adapt it with all of the goodies that go along with it to my vw.
so this topic is kind of voided? |
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ts39136
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Joined: January 30, 2010
Posts: 735
Location: Pocatello, Idaho
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| 1250 for everything except the engine. |
I applaud your project and can appreciate the desire to do something different. I agree this topic is dead because it's led us far astray. I will look forward to your build page soon.
I get dumbfounded at the ridiculousness of some of the subaru quotes and feel the need to respond so that some unassuming newby won't immediately throw out the idea as reserved for the rich and famous. It was a pure economic decision for me,  cheaper to convert and get an engine with 100,000 miles left in it than it was to rebuild a VW engine.
Used subaru - $500 includes engine, thottle cable, air cleaner, fuel pump, fuel lines, lots of wires, ECU, radiator, hoses, fans, realys, fuse block, instruments, windshield wiper motor, all the engine sensors etc. Bonus, get front and rear seats, rear view mirror, sun visors and a bucket load of high quality metric fasteners.
Kennedy plate, 10 degree kit, clutch kit and throw out bearing $700.
Oxygen sensor $100- unless you know how to remove an old corroded one.
welding wire, shrink wrap, solder, electrical tape, fuel line clamps, replace fuel filter, wee bit of JB weld, a few PVC fittings, etc. $100
Sell subaru carcass and tires- subtract $150.
TOTOAL = $1250.
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STOICH
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Joined: November 26, 2004
Posts: 1100
Location: Fallbrook
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| ts39136 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| 1250 for everything except the engine. |
I applaud your project and can appreciate the desire to do something different. I agree this topic is dead because it's led us far astray. I will look forward to your build page soon.
I get dumbfounded at the ridiculousness of some of the subaru quotes and feel the need to respond so that some unassuming newby won't immediately throw out the idea as reserved for the rich and famous. It was a pure economic decision for me, cheaper to convert and get an engine with 100,000 miles left in it than it was to rebuild a VW engine.
Used subaru - $500 includes engine, thottle cable, air cleaner, fuel pump, fuel lines, lots of wires, ECU, radiator, hoses, fans, realys, fuse block, instruments, windshield wiper motor, all the engine sensors etc. Bonus, get front and rear seats, rear view mirror, sun visors and a bucket load of high quality metric fasteners.
Kennedy plate, 10 degree kit, clutch kit and throw out bearing $700.
Oxygen sensor $100- unless you know how to remove an old corroded one.
welding wire, shrink wrap, solder, electrical tape, fuel line clamps, replace fuel filter, wee bit of JB weld, a few PVC fittings, etc. $100
Sell subaru carcass and tires- subtract $150.
TOTOAL = $1250. |
at ecology auto wrecking, (not to create competition, but Im in it for the group) on a rainy day, 50% off makes an engine $90.00, and an ecu/harness $50.00 (no matter what engine) .... I can get the same air cooled engine at the same price, at half the horsepower... adapter, $700.00 how could you not switch?
I priced out an aircooled when swapping out my turbo motor... just the tin and charging system (new) out weighed the cost of the adapter...
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ts39136
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Joined: January 30, 2010
Posts: 735
Location: Pocatello, Idaho
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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63-
Don't let us discourage you by our bantering. Keep in mind what really matters.
| 63 wrote: |
| i first saw the carbureted ej project it excited me |
We're not the ones spending hours upon hours and money we probably don't have on your dream.
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63 ragtop baja
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Joined: September 28, 2010
Posts: 24
Location: Monrovia/Ontario
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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i'd really like to know where you find an engine with ecu and 99percent of the harness for $500...sorta being critical, and sorta curious.
@STOICH, i called ecology last weekend before i went to pick-a-part and when i asked about subarus they quickly responded by saying they didnt have any subarus and good luck.
Also
| Quote: |
| We're not the ones spending hours upon hours and money we probably don't have on your dream. |
i like that you said that. i just got hired on for a show that this week is for 2 days, and will run for another 6 after, then a music video the following week with the same crew. i'm sure that tonight me and my girlfriend of 2.75yrs will split up, and if so, that means i'll be back at my moms place(where the garage and my tools are) so, with 12 hr days for the next few weeks ill have plenty of money and have no problem working all night on this bug.
have a great night guys. |
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ts39136
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Joined: January 30, 2010
Posts: 735
Location: Pocatello, Idaho
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry to hear about your challenges.
| 63 ragtop baja wrote: |
| i'd really like to know where you find an engine with ecu and 99percent of the harness for $500...sorta being critical, and sorta curious. |
Craigslist!! Legacy with [ bad clutch, bad trans, "electrical problems", rear end damage, etc.]... I've located three within 300 miles for under $800 right now because I'm looking to fix up a subaru for the kids. All three of them even come with 100% of the harness 
| 63 ragtop baja wrote: |
| have found a 1998 legacy gt2.5 in my area for just 800 greenbacks. so i plan to pull that sucker in the next week and start taking out the harness...wish me luck |
Or... look under the dashboard, it should be a silver box with about 75 wires sticking out.
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kbwakesk8
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| Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:54 am Post subject: |
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when you do this detail how you moded the wire harness to use the stock computer. alot of people have problems with this the cpu tends to go in to safe mode. fyi it is easyier to do the swap from a subi that was stick shift ,it has somthing to do with the traction control talking to the motor cpu
due your home work on this first. I had done alot of reading on this a few years ago.
there is a lot of threads of guys putting subi's in there vanagans. |
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veeweeman
Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2009
Posts: 940
Location: New Port Richey, FL
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| Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| STOICH wrote: |
| veeweeman wrote: |
I thought this was a AirCooled VW forum
"It just says "HBB Offroad" on the door
...why are we discussing Subaru's ...the poll seems to be against anything other then VW, so why don't you use the money you do have and build a nice clean reliable VW engine...you can buy a complete short block with hydraulic lifters if spending 15 minutes to adjust your valves is too much effort...electronic ignition and even fuel injection for the air cooled VW will make it plenty reliable and trouble free...parts are parts and the VW is plenty reliable and have been proven time and time again...what makes any motor more reliable then the other is the components that you bolt to it that make it run, spark and fuel!...if you look at the 96 and up Chevy stuff you can use 98% of stock components that you can use to EFI your VW and Ford has a EDIS crank trigger wheel that can be adapted to your VW or I can tell you where you can buy a pulley with the crank trigger ready to go and adapt it to the Chevy ECM...much cheaper then buying an adapter plate and another motor and adding a radiator to your VW plus you'll have to redo the wiring anyway |
however, I don't disagree with anything you've said... I myself would like more info on the ford crank trigger trick. I do prefer to run aircooled in my street cars, and this poll aside, have no real love for water cooled other than offroad abuse-ability. Please do post the ford/chevy stuff you mentioned. I made most of my efi system myself, but would still like to convert over to a crank trigger rather than the hall-effect sensor Im using currently |
Here's the site for the crank trigger;
http://lowbugget.com/main_page.html |
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