Major disaster with Small Car oil pan upgrade ~ HELP!!

[r39o]

This is THE EXACT problem I had with my SC oil pan. No idea what to do to make it fit or seal right. I got NO instructions with this. There is an O ring to worry about, I recall. I still only have about 10 miles on my conversion and have not hooked up the oil pressure or oil temp senders to gauges. I used VW senders and two of the plugs with the holes using the same positions as the Subaru Sport gauge set uses. (We actually got the pressure sender to fit straight up with a couple of adapters so it is easy to get at the wires.)

My buddy. who has been helping me. had the oil pan on and had spoken to SC about it before I had a chance to look close and snap a picture. I will find out what he recalls as my engine is a 93 EJ22.

This does not really help the OP, though.

Did Mao tell you to remove the plug????
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[orin salah]

[orin salah]

[orin salah]

[orin salah]

Okay, one kind of important update here.

I did talk with Small Car a little bit yesterday and I think I may have identified the point of miscommunication.

I was originally told that I could remove the plug because it did not go anywhere. When I pulled the plug oil came out, so obviously the hole on the other side of the plug did lead somewhere. This is the point that a more experienced mechanic would have stopped and thought, "No, something is wrong here." Unfortunately most of my experience is with things much simpler than engine blocks. I've only been inside motors a couple of times, and most of that was a long time ago.

In my defense, I never would have pulled this plug on my own. If there had been no one to offer any advice I would have ended up putting the original pan back on and trying to hunt for answers/solutions later. There was only one plug on the bottom of the block which lead me to believe that if I was being told it is okay to remove a plug we must be talking about the same thing. Again, a bad assumption on my part.

The reality is, there were probably many signs that would have been apparent to an experienced mechanic; even I can identify some of them using my 20/20 hindsight.

The most obvious being:
1. Oil spilling out from the plug
2. No oil pressure when I started the van

It is really a case of bad luck. This plug seems to be very unusual and I know that it is hard, if not impossible, to know every intricacy of every motor. I have no doubt that if Small Car had pulled that plug hands-on they would have immediately recognized that it needed to stay in there. To bad I don't have that same amount of experience!

So what was the solution? As mentioned much earlier in the thread a simple photo or two could have prevented this. Or perhaps just taking more time to talk it over on the phone. All I can hope is that all of this will prevent the accident from happening again to someone else.

And all of this is still assuming that the plug really was the cause!!
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'88 Wolfsburg Vanagon GL Hardtop w/2.2 Subaru

[orin salah]

I just spent some time searching around with Google to see if I could find any images of a block with the same plug mine had, no luck though. I did find a few pictures that show the same thing as this one.

If you look at the spot just to the left of the oil pickup tube you can see there is a passageway that is blocked off. That is where my plug was at. I saw a few other photos that showed this same passageway blocked by a non-removable plug. Perhaps this is something Subaru did later on down the road after my motor was made? Certainly if there was a permanent plug like the one shown in this photo on my motor none of this would have happened. Oh well!

Hopefully this means that there won't be many other people running into the problem I had, it certainly seems that way.
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'88 Wolfsburg Vanagon GL Hardtop w/2.2 Subaru

[j_dirge]

I think I'd take this question to the Subaru Vanagon list.. and ask them there, too? More eyes on it may get an answer to the question.
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[Jon_slider]

this thread NEEDS a picture of the ACTUAL plug you removed , AND a picture of it installed in the location you keep trying to describe in words.

imo, if smallcar sold you a pan that did not fit, and told you to remove something, and you did what they said, after which your engine seized.. well,

I think smallcar owes you a motor.

Im sure all the mechanics will disagree, and continue to blame your lack of psychic powers to determine that smallcar told you to do something you were supposed to ignore..

please post the outcome of your negotiation with smallcar

imo, it is clearly not your fault, you followed directions, and bad things happened..

fwiw, Burley sells a shortened stock oil pan. It is steel, not aluminum, and it fits like a stock oil pan...

If you dont want to use the smallcar pan again.. they should refund it..

Im definitely not trying to win any popularity contests with the mechanics contributing to this thread, by posting this.. Im not a mechanic, just a consumer that would have followed smallcars directions like you did..

[Zeitgeist 13]

As previously mentioned, the mechanics in the room would say:

oil galley plug = problem > hold da phone, let's think this through.

Optimally all suppliers would offer products that can be installed by folks of any level of experience, but that's clearly not the case in this instance. The company obviously needs to clean up its communications protocols and possibly alter its product to suit all applications of this engine series, or clearly state where there's interference. I think the OP clearly knows what he needs to do in the future, so no need to belabor that point.
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Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[davevickery]

[pjrae]

I just installed their oil pan on my 2.5 a few days ago, but my motor is still on the stand awaiting a clutch....
what I noticed during my install:
The oil pan flange shape is more vague than the stock pan, it does not look like it lines up with either the inner or outer lip of the oil pan gasket surface on the block, rather, it seems to center on the bolt holes and make up it's inexactitude with a generous flange. I believe that the flange is quite possibly (almost definitely?) large enough to clearance the inner lip in order to clear an obtrusive bolt head, especially one that fit under the stock pan?
This has almost achieved certainty in my mind, as the stock pan starts INSIDE the bolt holes, and the smallcar pan (mostly) hollowly encompasses the bolt holes to gain volume.
As with many similar gasketed jobs, tapping (or cleaning the $hit out of!) the mounting threads is often a necessity for good results.

I'm sympathetic of the steep learning curve that "simple, bolt on mods" can bring to bear upon their owners, but I am of the belief that anytime we choose to turn our own wrench we are responsible! Uncertain or in a hurry? 2x as responsible
If you had a mechanic in your employ that called smallcar and received the same advice (they have removed a similar mystery bolt w/out issue) it would end up being the mechanic's responsibility for chancing to remove an unknown quantity, correct? Also, as mentioned, a mechanic would likely have been more motivated to make sure things were copacetic before driving?
I refuse to equate phone advice with guarantees, it's a slippery slope that already has glued too many helpful folks mouths shut!!

Good luck,

Phil
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a.lake - 87 Syncro 2.5L -

[Mofus]

My heart sank when I read you drove away without oil pressure. Sorry this happened. Although I have a bit of experience I might have done the same thing after talking to SC.

Here is a bigger version of my picture:

I put the cast oil pan on after my stock pan cracked because the dip stick tube support fin was rubbing on the engine mount. SC said, oh yeah, that can happen if you dont grind it down where it touches. Oh well. The cast pan went on fine. I have no idea what that plug you removed was. Good luck with fixing your van.
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'87 Syncro passenger w/ 2.2L Subaru
'10 Passat Wagon (keeps Mrs. Mofus away from my van)

[orin salah]

Well folks I want to follow up and post some closure to this story. First, as requested earlier in the thread I want to post pictures of the plug and the hole it filled.

Here is a photo of the bottom of the block:

The plug was filling the hole to the left of where the oil pickup tube bolts on. We can all see (obviously now that the engine is removed) that the plug was blocking a port. Here is a photo of the plug:

So go ahead and blast me some more for following the advice of Small Car and not following my instincts or doubting what the supposed experts were telling me, but the end of the matter is that the plug I was told to remove was a drain for the oil pump main galley. So what happened with my van and what was Small Car's response? Read on if you are still interested.

For a number of reasons, my inexperience certainly one of them, I decided to take my van up to Rocky Mountain Westy and have them put a rebuild from CCR in instead of tackling it on my own. They provided the photos and the info that the plug was indeed for the oil pump galley. Basically the oil pickup tube was sucking the oil up from the pan and then it was getting ejected right back into the pan. But, the van now has a "new" motor in it and is running fine.

What happened with Small Car? Well they, of course, denied that they had any responsibility whatsoever in what happened. I agree as much as anyone that in the end it was ME, the guy with the wrench, who holds ultimate responsibility, BUT I would have liked to see some admission that things could have been handled better on their end. They did refund me the cost of the oil pan, which did cover about 25% of the labor charges to have the new motor installed. I would have been happier if they had refunded me my entire purchase, especially since the oil pan probably cost them next to nothing, but at least they did something.

More importantly I would have liked Mao to admit that he had some role to play in what happened instead of pretending like it was all my fault for following his advice. Of course everyone can use their perfect hindsight after the fact to pick apart everything I did wrong, but I can do that myself.

In the end, I am VERY disappointed with the fit of the Small Car pan. It never would have fit on my motor without major modification; grinding away the oil dipstick snout so that it did not hit the thermostat housing and presumably grinding away a spot inside the pan so that it would not hit the oil plug for the oil pump galley. This is not even close to what they claim to be selling. Just look on their website if you want to see how easy they make the installation seem. I am also disappointed with their customer service and lack of willingness to stand behind their own advice.

So the choice is yours. I am sure there are many out there who had great experiences with Small Car, I know some who have, that's why I choose to get the pan from them in the first place. But be aware that there are some 2.2 Subaru motors out there that the pans will NOT fit without a fair amount of modification.

And for goodness sake, if you have a plug like mine, make sure it doesn't go anywhere if you pull it out and don't repeat my mistake!!
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'88 Wolfsburg Vanagon GL Hardtop w/2.2 Subaru

[Crankey]

well, you also know that this thread will take money out of their future. if that holds any satisfaction for you.

is there enough thickness in the casting to carve a notch with a die grinder for this plug ? sounds like a sloppy casting and a sloppy jig for post casting machine work.

custom fitting a piece like this isn't all that unusual, but they way you describe the fit of the mounting holes around the perimeter is pretty lame.

I think they should do a better job machining their stuff, or provide a fitting disclaimer/warning.

why did you want this oil pan in the first place ?

[Jake de Villiers]

Good to hear that you've got your van up and running again! It sounds like Small Car's typical arrogant attitude to me. They've been getting away with sub-standard parts for a long time because there just weren't many alternatives. Its a good thing that there are more choices now!
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[ftp2leta]

More here.
http://www.benplace.com/SS_oil_pan.htm

Ben
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[orin salah]

[AceDanger]

My good friend and I have just spend the last few months completing a 2.2 swap. I came to here today to look for advice on a coolant problem and found this thread, read in a ways and realized we had had the EXACT SAME EXPERIENCE. Tried to fit the pan, hit THAT bolt, called small car, talked to Mao who told us "it's nothing, pull it" and we did. The car has been started and ran to warm 3 times and we can't figure out why the coolant system isn't working, thank god it's not because if it had been we'd have drove off.

Looks like i'll be calling SC and having a word

So if it's any consolation, you're experience just saved me my bus, thanks for posting.

[Californio]

Does Small Car have a presence here on the Samba? If so maybe they should chime in. Other reputable vendors (RMW, Burley, Karl M.) don't hesitate to discuss when there's a problem, so should SC. It's pretty clear there is a problem at this point. I would be pissed if I went through what the OP through.

[hforo]

I'm glad that you found this thread before your van melted down! It's really a shame all the stories I've been hearing about SC lately. Not to make this a SC bashing thread, but there is a lot of evidence here that they absolutely should address.

My 2 cents.