Horn wire in steering column

[68busnow]

I have been searching, with no luck, for a thread that explains/shows how to replace the horn wire that runs through the steering column of a 68 bay window bus.

Does anyone know if such a thread exist

Thx

[70Crew]

Are you trying to do it with the column in place? Having just rebuilt my whole steering column myself I'd say it is simple when the column is off and virtually impossible with it installed.

[Daverham]

One fine day... when I figure this out for myself. I mean REALLY figure it out, from top to bottom.. I'm going to do up the most awesome diagram that shows every detail, exploded view with notes!

Until then - if anyone has anything of that nature to start from. Post it here!

[68busnow]

Of course, the column is in place. I figured it was tough. Do you any pics of the overhaul?\\I might be going there.

[70Crew]

Of course now I wished I had been taking pictures. It may take me couple days but I will try and document the steps. What year is your bus?

[68busnow]

1968 bay window

[70Crew]

I'm going to post some photos of what I learned during the process of rebuilding my column. I have a 1970 bus so the parts should be basically the same. Even though I neglected to take photos as I was doing it, I have all the parts from another bus and can do a little staging (hopefully in the next day or so).

[70Crew]

There are 2 wires you need to connect on the steering column.

The first wire is the column tube ground. There is a short wire that comes off the main wiring harness and ends up right next to the steering gear box. This wire needs to be routed through the metal loop (A) on the underside of the cover plate and then attached to the tab that sticks out from the end of the column tube (B). These tabs break off easily; I have 3 column tubes and 2 of the ground tabs are missing (broken off). I attached this ground wire with the steering column, gear box and cover plate in place. It took a lot of cussing, a shop light and a pair of Harbor Freight extra-long needle nose pliers but it is definitely possible (see space G.... yep, that's pretty tight). The alternative is to remove the gear box which I didn’t want to hassle with.

The second wire (also a ground wire?) is brown and runs from the top of the steering column (C) to just above the gear box. The steering column is hollow and this wire runs through the center of it. The bottom end of this wire has a large loop wire terminal that fits around one of the 4 hex head M8 bolts that connect the steering column to the coupling disk and top of the gear box. There is a small gap (D) between the coupling disk and top of the gearbox which allows you to feed that wire (E) from the column and around the corner to one of the hex head bolts (F). I attached it on the bottom, under a nut, so that the contact was metal to metal rather than nut to rubber. I’m not 100% sure that is how it was done from the factory but it makes sense to me (anyone out there know better?).

Bentley says you are supposed to install the column tube first and then the steering column from underneath. That was not possible without a lift so I installed the entire assembly from the top. I did it alone and the only part that was remotely difficult was attaching the aforementioned column tube ground wire.

Good luck and holler if you have any questions.

Chris
(MiOdy81)

[68busnow]

Great pictures.

Is it possible to replace the brown wire that runs up thru the column to the horn ring without removing the whole column and steering box?

[70Crew]

I don't think you can get there without some work but you don't need to pull the steering box. Here's the easiest way I can think of (assumes the steering wheel is off):

1) Remove the 4 screws holding the steering column/ignition bracket so that the entire column assembly is loose.

2) Remove the 2 screws holding the cap that is mounted on the floor.

3 Raise the entire column tube assembly up off the floor (steering shaft will stay in place) high enough that you have access to the 4 bolts that hold the steering shaft to the coupler and steering box. This means you will be disconnecting the ground wire from the ground tab that sticks out from the end of the column tube. That is a pain to reconnect but can be done (see my original post). I'm also not sure whether the column assembly can be raised up high enough to get at the bolts without disconnecting all the wires to the ignition switch and turn signal. If they are all attached there may not be enough slack (mine were not attached when I did this).

4) Disconnect the 2 bolts holding the steering column on the coupler. These are hard to get at (easier with 2 people) and have cotter pins underneath which secure the nuts.

Once these 2 bolts are off, you can slide the steering column up the tube far enough to reach the wire and fish a new one through.

PS - it will probably be harder than this. I am going off memory and every bus seems to be a little bit different due to PO changes and such. Good luck.

Chris

[70Crew]

Another thought..... just taking off 2 of the 4 bolts holding the steering column to the coupler disc and steering box may not give you enough room to fish the wire, you may need to remove all 4. You'll need to remove at least 3 since you will be attaching the circular ground lug over one of the other bolt heads. Maybe removing 3 will allow you to swivel the shaft enough to feed the wire, so try that first before removing all 4.

[TeamSpatula]

[SGKent]

I think it is a tab at the bottom of the tube as I recall. you can't bolt to it as the shaft is in the way. The tube is insulated by the plastic piece at the bottom too as I recall. Probably you could pull the tube, clean an area and solder or spot a new tab on it. I think I temp fixed mine on the 1971 by soldering the end of a wire to the remnant of the tab until I could fix it permanently.
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[busdaddy]

The tab was riveted to the bottom of the tube. I've fixed them with a pop rivet but that's easier if it's apart. I've also drilled a hole in the floor plate just infront of the column tube and screwed the wire to the outside of the tube with a short screw, crude but effective.
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[TeamSpatula]

OK, so I must have something else crossed up...I drilled a hole at the front of the cab floor and ran that wire up through it, then drilled a hole about where the letter "B" is on that diagram, and screwed the wire connector to the plate.
However, now the horn button still doesn't do anything, but if I wiggle the outer column, with the 2 floor mounting screws loosened, then it appears to short out if I have it all the way forward, i.e. horn blows continuously, even if I unplug the brown wire from the connector in the middle of the steering wheel. Then when I move the column back, nothing possible will make it honk.
I am thinking I'm missing something, or else have something else wrong as well. At this point I'm just trying to not have to take apart the coupler or anything more serious like that. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Thanks,
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[busdaddy]

[kreemoweet]

Another way to put it is: that wire cannot touch any grounded surface or part, because it is
the HOT wire feeding the horn button switch. The steering column itself is part of that same
HOT side of the circuit, and that is why it is insulated at both top and bottom from any contact
with ground.
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[SGKent]

strip an inch off the end of a wire. Clean an area of paint on the tube and use a stainless clamp to clamp the stripped wire to it. Run the other end thru the floor to the wire under the bus. Next time the column tube is apart you can fix the tab and repaint the tube,
_________________
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it." - George Carlin

[Tcash]

Deleted, already posted.

[skills@eurocarsplus]

would like to note:

the wire in the column tube is grounded as shown in the picture, through the coupler bolt to the steering box but the factory did it on the top side (not that it matters)

also, make sure the bolt you pick is one that attaches the coupler to the steering box. i have found too many of 'my horn won't work' complaints because someone used the bolt that the steering shaft uses to bolt to the coupler thus making no ground connection
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