Best Intake and DP end castings for a 2017 with 34PICT-3

[Gariack]

I have been gathering parts for a 2017 for a daily driver for a while now. I would like to get 100 HP. I would like to achieve this with a Modified 34PICT-3. I have read that the stock end castings will limit me to about 90 HP. I am looking at the Empi 3236 or the Bugpack Trick End castings 1557-30 used with the 34Pict manifolds either Empi 17-2805 or CB Performance 3151. I am looking for recommendations. I am concerned that the trick end castings might be too big and cost me low end power. I have modified one 34PICT-3 with a 1mm larger venture and streamlining the internals and was impressed with the results on the 1600 in my 69 beetle. I have bought several more carbs at swap meets to try going bigger. The 2017 is at the long block stage with a “Cheater” Cam with 1.25 rockers and CB 044 heads with single springs and 40mm by 35mm valves. I plan to get heavy Duty Aluminum push rods. I would like to run low octane pump gas so I was targeting a compression ratio of 7.2 and for an exhaust I am planning 1 ½”. I think I will also need to do a mild port job on the heads after consulting Desk Top Dyno. I know I could easily achieve my goal with a pair if 40mm dual 2 barrel carbs. Thoughts?

[[email protected]]

I would bump the CR up more, to 8:1. Even 8.25:1. Alstrup has done a lot of playing with the 34-3, and says the best size to go to on the venturi is 28mm, max 28.5mm. With the large displacement the bigger venturis will actually make your tuning easier. You can go bigger than 28.5mm, but Alstrup says tuning gets too touchy and difficult. Alstrup knows what he is doing, so if he says it I would not go against his advice. I did this 25 years ago, and a lot of what I did is fuzzy in my memory, but it mirrors was Alstrup states.

Large volume end castings are not going to hurt you, not for this combo and with your displacement.
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[bugnut68]

No offense intended, here, but just seeking info: doesn't building a big-valve 2017 and maintaining a Solex 34 PICT carb kind of defeat the purpose of going bigger? What are the limitations of a Solex carb, as far as max performance is concerned?

[spencerfvee]

i am running about the same motor your building in my 71 super .. my motor is a 78x92 mofoco 042 heads mild porting on the heads.. heads are cut for 9 1/2 CR i use 93 pump gas . a 1 1/2 "header with glass pack i like the sound . ported stock end castings. CB cheater cam . i have one of the alum. CB intake manifold that has been wildly ported lol for a 34pict carb . i use a auto stick dizy with 009 guts set at 30degs total with out vac. the carb is a stock bocar 34pict with stock venturi .i am now useing a 175 needle and seat with 135 main jet 55 idle jet fuel pressure set at 2 1/2 lbs .and a 4 " stack with air cleanner on top of it . i do a lot of intown driveing so i like the stock 26 venturi. if your after all out top end go with the 28 venturi like john said . as for the stock end casting not making power to 90hp. i dont know but i can tell you one thing my bug will do over 100mph and it goes through the gears fast . i shift at 5,800 rpm on the street . when i am raceing at the drag strip i shift at 6,500 rpm. so i dont feal the stock end castings are holding my motor back ...you just have to port the hell out of the stock end castings lol lol.. as for the trick ends from bug pack . i have a set . do understand how big those end casting are . to big for most motors.. there great for a turbo .you would have no bottom end . useing the trick ends you would be up shifting and down shifting all the time on the street stay with the stock end castings .you will be happy with them . good luck spencerfvee heres pictures of trick ends and my motor with 34 pict carb ...... quote="Gariack"]I have been gathering parts for a 2017 for a daily driver for a while now. I would like to get 100 HP. I would like to achieve this with a Modified 34PICT-3. I have read that the stock end castings will limit me to about 90 HP. I am looking at the Empi 3236 or the Bugpack Trick End castings 1557-30 used with the 34Pict manifolds either Empi 17-2805 or CB Performance 3151. I am looking for recommendations. I am concerned that the trick end castings might be too big and cost me low end power. I have modified one 34PICT-3 with a 1mm larger venture and streamlining the internals and was impressed with the results on the 1600 in my 69 beetle. I have bought several more carbs at swap meets to try going bigger. The 2017 is at the long block stage with a “Cheater” Cam with 1.25 rockers and CB 044 heads with single springs and 40mm by 35mm valves. I plan to get heavy Duty Aluminum push rods. I would like to run low octane pump gas so I was targeting a compression ratio of 7.2 and for an exhaust I am planning 1 ½”. I think I will also need to do a mild port job on the heads after consulting Desk Top Dyno. I know I could easily achieve my goal with a pair if 40mm dual 2 barrel carbs. Thoughts?[/quote][im

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[Alstrup]

I failed to understand what brand those end pieces above is (?) Also, what is inside diameter in the ports ?

Wrt venturi, what John said, BUT the 28 mm size has to do with still using an SVDA distributor. Above 28 mm venturi size the vacum signal gets f***** up and you need to use a regular mechanical advance. The lower end stumble that this normally is dreded for is not nearly as much of a problem when the displacement is larger, due to higher velocity on the incoming mix. An engine that size need a 30 mm venturi

The set up Garriack is listing wohnt yield 100 hp. at all. More like 85 on a good day. I have advocated against heavy cams, but the 2280 is too mild for the set up to really pay off hp wise. It´ll pull decent lower end torque. But not massive. The CR is too low.

Without spilling all my hard earned secrets I will say this much: You need more cam, way more CR. (At least for medium grade fuel) 30 mm I.D. of the end pieces, 30 mm venturi in the carb, a CB/Empi center section, differentiated lift on intake and exhaust or the large valved heads will overscavenge wildly. (I only use 37,5/33 mm valves on my 100 hp 2007 to get best possible airspeed and superior torque throughout the rpm band) The 37,5 mm valve flows 150-153 CFM at 0,530" @ 28" which is more than enough to support 100 hp
When you have chosen a 35 mm exh. valve you are doomed to have a 1½" exhaust system. Which is ok for that matter as that will help you get more usable power above peak hp.

[ralf]

T, those are Bugpack Trick ends....


i think you should try those.. seeing u have extensively tried the dp end castings

maybe we can find out more gains from your tests?
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Flow Through a Curved Conduit

porting my SP head for my brother's project
https://youtu.be/OS_mVjQuqgk

[Alstrup]

OK.
I still need to hear about the inside diameter.

If they are "right" they may help us not havíng to cut port and weld stock end castings when we need more square.
T

[ralf]

lets wait for spencer fvee

or john since theyre one of the few who carries the BP trickends
_________________
Flow Through a Curved Conduit

porting my SP head for my brother's project
https://youtu.be/OS_mVjQuqgk

[spencerfvee]

hi alstrup on the intake manifold side of the trick ends the inside is 1 5/8" on the cyl. head side of the end castings there 1 3/8 " but can be ported way bigger . on the intake manifold side of the end casting the plenum chamber is 4" deep by 3 1/4 "wide 2" tall the port runners are maybe 7" long i cant tell for . but all i can say is that there f%$ king big lol hope that helps you out heres some pictures of the trick ends untill you have them in your hands . to see how big they realy are the pictures dont show how big they are take care spencerfvee

[Alstrup]

OK.
Thank you Spencer. 1 3/8" is 35 mm. That is kinda big, and would need at least 2 liter displacement to be efficient. 7" of isolated runner is OK. That leaves about 9,3" total. i will work a little with that and see where that gets me.

Might have to drop John a line in near future

T

PS. I just edited my post above regarding flow numbers. I just realized that the numbers were at 28" for the std plus head. I do another more performance orientated head with the same valve size that flows the same numbers at 25" (Which is 160 CFM @ 28" btw. ) These are still with only 33,5 mm port inlet. The std plus version has 32,7 mm port inlet.

[gt1953]

Honestly I think it is great that you are using a 34 pict carb for this...
I want to do the same for my 1776. Wish someone made like a 38 pict carb.
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[Gariack]

[email protected] I helped my son build a 2110 for his 66 beetle and He has also been telling me my compression ratio is to low, so I will bump that up. I do respect your advice and thank you for your contributions to our sport. My son’s car is scary fast, and more then I need for a daily driver. I want something that will not pull down on hills like my 1600 will.

Spencerfvee Thank you for your reply. I have been following your posts because I know you have also been pursuing this type of motor. I have been stalled for a while now, afraid my engine would run out of breath at 3,000 RPM or the cam was too small. Hearing about your, larger engine, with the same cam & unmodified carb going to 5,800 is very encouraging. I will be opening up the end castings.

Alstup I was hoping you would reply. I also value your advice. I went with the “cheater” cam because there was an article in Hot VW magazine were they built a 1776 with a w-100 cam and couldn’t get it to pass California smog. They later said they installed the cheater cam and it did then pass. My car was once put on the movable sniffer Dyno the authorities’ use, which has made me paranoid. Over scavenge sounds like a bad thing. Are you recommending a split duration cam? When I said 100 HP I guess I meant a California Dyno:)

[spencerfvee]

hi gariack i am like you i just want to do 5 mph over the speed limit . and pull hills in 4th gear with out haveing the cops pull me over lol my self i like a 4:125 ring gear and a 158 close ratio 3rd gear in my trans. . i am not a fan of the 3:88 ring gear .when useing a 34 pict carb.. i all so like useing a 25 to 26 inch tall tire for the street . if the 34pict carb does not work out for you. you might want to try a set of 44 kadrons . i had a set on my car and loved them. the ka drons realy woke my motor up.. but i was speeding on the street to much and took them off to slow me down . my 71 super is klind of a here i am give me a ticket kind of bug lets just say i cant tell the cop it was not my bug that was speeding lol lol spencerfvee .

[drumbum68]

What'n da HADES am I lookin at?

[Alstrup]

[spencerfvee]

lol lol i told you it was crazy looking . lets put it this way its won two second places at two vw shows . its kind of a rat rod. low rider. volks rod hell i dont know what you would call it ... all i know is the ladys love it . its just a fun car . heck i had two cal look cars and went to shows with both of them and never won any thing lol spencerfvee

[laker]

[Gariack]

Alstrup: Thanks for answering my question on differentiated lift. I will give that a go.

Spencerfvee: Your bug looks awesome. Mine is more of a sleeper. I had my 66 bug stolen once, so try not to attract too much attention.

Thanks everyone for your replies. I hope I can now get motivated to finishing this engine.

[frostbite36]

Where can I find a pair of these big "Trick" end pieces? Can find them anywhere??

[fastfil]

CB's offering:
http://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/7367.htm
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