73 bus, auto reverse light issue

[obnoxiousblue]

Folks, I'm trying to trace why a friends 73 has no reverse lights. I've checked fuse 11 as the manual dictates, and went to the back to find the reverse light fuse holder near the coil. But it's MIA. I suspect somewhere in the buses past life it was haphazardly removed without the offending individual understanding it's purpose. I'm looking in the Bentley for where the wires are drawn from hoping there may be some part of the circuit remaining but anticipating it will need to be entirely rewired.
Can someone summarize for me where the wires run for the reverse lights?
Admittedly, I'm not able to understand the wiring diagram once they got away from the early style drawings.

Thanks
Mike
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Mike
1964 Beetle
2001 Eurovan Camper

[wcfvw69]

On my 70' bus, a power wire (thru the fuse holder) goes from the positive side of the coil down to the reverse switch on the transmission. Then another wire goes from the other side of the transmission switch up to the reverse lights where it splits into two wires. One to each reverse light. The other side of the reverse light is the ground wire that screws to the body w/the rest of the rear lights.
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[obnoxiousblue]

This is a great start!
The transmission switch is on the drivers side right? Almost has the shape of a brake switch?
I'm not very familiar with these autos.
Thanks for your help!
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Mike
1964 Beetle
2001 Eurovan Camper

[Sage79]

Something is odd with the '73 automatic because mine doesn't have the separate fuse holder either. A white (grey?) wire goes from the switch on top of the transmission pan, driver's side, over the transmission and enters a harness in the passenger side wheel well. My coil has one large black wire on the black side plus my electric choke feeds, that's it. BTW I have functioning reverse lights.
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Dirk
'79 Westy 2.0FI
'73 Sportsmobile 1.7dual Solex 003Auto - now my daughter's
'77 delux 2.0FI 090Auto - now my son's

[busdaddy]

Isn't the reverse light switch in the shifter on auto buses? (AKA neutral start switch).
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[Wasted youth]

If I recall correctly, the wire coming from the 003 tranny on my 1973 bus was solely for the kick down shift solenoid. Let me see if I can take a look and get back to you.

[obnoxiousblue]

Thanks guys. Sage, this bus does the same thing, there is a white/gray wire that is on the drivers side. It goes over the trans to the passenger side and like your's, it enters a loom and goes into the engine compartment. I stopped chasing that because it didn't go to the fuse holder I had been looking for based on the manual. So, I can't say as to where it goes.

Busdaddy, are you saying that the wire is actually under the shifter in the front of the bus? I didn't think to look there.

Wasted Youth, if you have (or have access to) a 73 auto, I'd be very appreciative of any pointers or even photos you might be able to share!
_________________
Mike
1964 Beetle
2001 Eurovan Camper

[busdaddy]

[Wasted youth]

Here is a picture of the Kickdown Solenoid, bottom left in the picture with the dark colored wire:

And outside of the case:

I looked in Bentley, wiring diagram VW Type 2 - from August 1972 (1973-75 models), and it does not seem to support automatic transmissions. See Track 65, with item F4. Must be for the manual transmission only.

Unfortunately, I have no pictures of the shifter mechanism taken apart, but I did once open it up when I reinstalled the tranny I rebuilt, but that was just to clean and lube the shifter. Sorry, but I cannot recall if there is a switch in there!

[obnoxiousblue]

[Wasted youth]

The shifter indicator should have one or two small lamps, the shifter mechanism if so equipped with a position switch should present itself clearly. You can ring out the circuit with a long test lead to the reverse lights in the back and an ohmmeter, or maybe a test light. The shifter housing will lift straight up after unfastening it, but you will need to hold it up out of the way somehow while you get in there to look around.

I bet the shifter Reverse switch wire will be black or grey, while the lamp wires will probably be blue. Brown is ground.

[obnoxiousblue]

That's a good start! At least I now know to start at the shifter. Funny, how the 73 manual says there should be a fuse holder there but doesn't specify for manuals only.
Man, my 77 is so much more straight forward than this thing!
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Mike
1964 Beetle
2001 Eurovan Camper

[Wasted youth]

Well, it's just a little confusing for this aspect due the lack of ready information. Once you find it, I bet it will all be straightforward...and I bet you make a diagram or notes for your Bentley Supplemental notebook.

[obnoxiousblue]

As per usual, you guys were right. I removed the cover to the shifter lever and quickly saw there was a series of electrical contacts alongside the shifter. There are four male spade connectors in all, and a contact bar that slides when the lever is moved. I'm sure when new, it was intended to connect a series of contacts on the plastic block thus completing the circuits.
With no Bentley help here, I'm hoping you guys have some ideas.
You can see, the contact slider is clearly worn and dirty. This is obviously something that will need be replaced during this project and obviously cleaned.

But besides that, only two of the four spade connectors have wires to them.
The green with yellow and black wires are hot. The single black wire is not.

Now, you can also see a picture of the contacts on the side of the switch.
First instinct says since reverse is the first step back from park, that the first series of contacts should be to activate the reverse lights, right?

Left is forward/park

Top is forward/park

But with the plastic block in place, and the lever engaged to reverse it passes right over the first series of contacts. There is no (obvious) adjustment on the contact block as the contacts themselves are fixed and the mounting holes align with a set of factory drilled holes in the metal shifter body.
Who has some ideas?
[/b]
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Mike
1964 Beetle
2001 Eurovan Camper

[Wasted youth]

1. When are the yellow/black (Y/B) and green (G) wires hot?

1B. When the ignition is on, when the headlights are on or hot all the time?

2. Did you trace our the Y/B and/or the G wire back to the reverse lights sockets?

3. What's the large red/black wire going to?

4. Could the first set of contacts be some sort of safety interlock to where the car won't start unless it's in Park? And can you confirm the Y/B and G wires actually go to the first set of contacts?

5. Did you find any lamps in the shifter housing?

6. What is the blue wire going to?

[obnoxiousblue]

1. When are the yellow/black (Y/B) and green (G) wires hot?

Only when the ignition is on, regardless of which gear the car is in.

1B. When the ignition is on, when the headlights are on or hot all the time?

Only when the ignition is on. Headlights have no effect. There is a gray with red banded wire which goes to the gear selector illumination.

2. Did you trace our the Y/B and/or the G wire back to the reverse lights sockets?

The green and red/black wires (as well as the gray/red illumination wire) go out under the floor and forward. Entering the nose of the bus. Green goes to fuse 11. Red/black goes to the steering column.
Black/yellow goes to the rear of the bus.

3. What's the large red/black wire going to?

The large red/black wire is connected to a large red wire. The red/black part heads up the nose to the steering column. The red part heads to the back of the bus.

I'm still trying to figure where the red wire goes in the back of the bus, as well as black/yellow.

4. Could the first set of contacts be some sort of safety interlock to where the car won't start unless it's in Park? And can you confirm the Y/B and G wires actually go to the first set of contacts?

Maybe, but they're not connected. With that in mind, the bus still started in gear.

5. Did you find any lamps in the shifter housing?

No signs of any other lamps in the housing at all. That is, other than a simple illumination circuit that was clearly in it's own loom. It had the gray/red wire and a brown ground that went to the PRND21 letters.

6. What is the blue wire going to?

It's the remote for her stereo.

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Mike
1964 Beetle
2001 Eurovan Camper

[obnoxiousblue]

Got it!

Post with progress, and more info in a bit!

Won't have it fixed permanently this afternoon. But found the problem!
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Mike
1964 Beetle
2001 Eurovan Camper

[kreemoweet]

The Bentley does indeed have a wiring diagram for that stuff, but it's not labeled properly in the original edition: just
"supplement to wiring diagram A2". The currently sold Bentley manual has it in "wiring diagram H".
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[germansupplyscott]

the worn out part of your switch/shifter - the black wiper contact bit with the brass contact and springs - is available as a spare part but it's getting difficult to find. i think you have to find it either used or NOS, i don't think there's a new production part available. or if you're handy you might be able to bend a new contact bit out of some brass sheet. the big (white) part of your switch looks fine. they wear out too and are still available new.
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SL

[busdaddy]

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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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