Fuel Injection / Carb Question

[Kreuger1]

First, I searched. I may be a noob, but I'm not a stupid noob. Searched "carb replacement", and read most of fifteen threads. I dont like posting if I can find my answers by searching, but I havent been able to. Read lots on how the Progressive isnt the best choice. Here is what I have. Bought a 77 westy from an estate sale. Previous owner had the motor pulled and rebuilt, then died. ALL the FI stuff is in a big box, all tangled and such. I am not smart enough to put it all back like it was. Its okay, I know and have made peace with it. Untangling and re-installing FI and all those vaccum lines that I have never worked with and did not take out is not something I can do.

Having said that, IF you had a FI bus and had to buy a set of carbs, which would you get? I got this westy very very cheap, so spending money on a good set of carbs isn't an issue for me. I am looking for reliablity first, power second. I will continue to search and read threads this afternoon. Would like to get something pretty quickly.

Any advice helps.

Thank you,

Tom

[Randy in Maine]

The cheapest option would be to put all of the FI back to where it came from and use that. If you can bake a cake from a rcookbook, you can set up the FI.

Dual carbs would be the next best option and you want to see something like Weber 40 IDF on the boxes along with intakes, linkages, and a rotary fuel pump running off a relay. About a grand to get that stuff new and properly set up for your application. Dual 2 barrel carbs work best.

Cheaper would be dual 1 barrel carbs. There is a reason they are cheaper though.

A center mounted single carb does not work well for a type 4 as there is really no good way to get good heat to the carb to keep the fuel:air mixture in suspension. So that would be my forth and least desirable option.

[Wildthings]

The only thing hard about reinstalling the fuel injection is figuring out which case bolts hold what in place. A few good pictures should get you there pretty quick. It is hard to actually install most of the wires wrong as they will only line up a few ways. Just be as neat as possible putting everything in place and make sure you replace all the rubber hoses and boots as you go.

[germansupplyscott]

[SGKent]

Since the motor is apparently not fully assembled - there may be more surprises. Better get a Bentley manual, get comfortable with a digital camere and uploading here.

I woud go with the FI. In many areas 1977 is still smogged and a carb will get flunked. This will be especially true as more states stiffen their smog regs.
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[busdaddy]

[Kreuger1]

Guess I should try to explain. My biggest fear is that I will re-install this FI system to find out that one or more crucial parts aren't working. I can replace all the fuel/vaccum hoses easily, obviously. Its the other little parts. So my choices are install the FI kit (If I can puzzle it out) as is, then when it doesn't run, troubleshoot it and start replacing the whole thing bit by bit, or buy all new stuff and install it. Or buy a set of carbs.

Randy, thank you for the info. Brand preference? I was thinking along the lines of a set of dual carbs, over the singles. As I said, its not really the money. I bought the bus for a song.

[busdaddy]

Even if you have to replace 3/4 of the FI (highly unlikely) it'll cost you less than $100 by shopping the classifieds, what's a good set of carbs cost? $1000?, pretty big gap there.
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[raygreenwood]

[BusterBrown]

There seems to be a consensus here. I love my '78 FI, and although I've not had to work on it yet (let alone install the whole deal), I've learned enough from reading these threads, that if it was goofed up, and I had to, I'd tackle it in a heartbeat.

Heck, I might just go out and R&R it anyways!

You're not really getting what you asked for, are you? That's the way it works around here sometimes...

Best of luck, and keep us posted.
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[Randy in Maine]

I am not a carb guy in the slightest. That grand for a new set up is one you should keep in your pocket. What do you say we get the FI system set up on there and if it all goes bad, you can still sell the whole FI set up and then go to carbs?

All of the FI stuff really pretty much mounts to the 8mm through bolts on the top of the engine. If the engine is out of this thing and sort of undressed, can you take a photo of the top of it? We can direct you on where the stuff mounts.

Over by the #3 cylinder is a 10mm x 1.0mm hole that the Temp Sensor II goes in. It sort of looks like this, but without the spacer shown....

We are looking to see if the heads have been replaced with non-FI heads that would not have that hole.

Also with some of that dough that you saved on buying carbs, remove the injectors and send them off for cleaning and calibration. Do the cold start valve while you are at it. I use this guy myself and he will do them all for ~ $100. www.cruzinperformance.com They will come back all cleaned and painted and with new seals and the short hoses.

Perhaps you could sort out all of the FI stuff you have and we could identify it for you? Post some pictures.

[aeromech]

I don't consider myself to be a fuel injection guy. Almost all of my experience with air cooled VW's has been with carburetors. That said, I agree with the other guys to reinstall the FI gear on your bus. There is a ton of help here for you on TheSamba and these guys can't wait to jump in and give you pointers and advice. Like was said earlier, the FI equipment for you bus can be fully checked for functionality by just using a simple multimeter that costs less than $50. This passed weekend I was involved helping a guy reinstall this gear on his 1979 bus engine which had been removed to fix the heads. It was pretty easy.

There's a reason why all modern cars are fuel injected.
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[cjjunkie]

well, on the other side of the issue and much to the beratement of others, i have had a progressive from a pinto for 6 years now, zero problems. slow acceleration, i have had it up to 70mph once and only once, now i cruise at about 57 on the speedo(55 on the road) rebuild kit when i sourced it was like $30. averaging 23 mpg in a 76 westphalia.

I was presented with a situation similar to yours when shopping. this was the cheapest, fastest and easiest fix.

if i had to do it over again i might go with dual 40's, read a fair ammount on here about them, i was always scared of sychronizing and tuning them, but I am fairly confident it wouldnt be that bad, and worth the bit of added acceleration if i were ever to be courteous to other drivers and "step" on the pedal.

from what I have read, and tinkering with my vanagon, the vw fuel injection system seems fairly simple. i doubt with the good results the cab has given me i'd switch, but i would definatley entertain the idea of experimenting with a setup on a parts motor to see if i can get it going.

Fuel injection has proven itself, but i'm happy living in the past....

[59walkthru]

reliability and power = FI.
carbs are going to cost three times what replacing all the FI components would and then setting up the carbs is going to cost you quite a bit too, weather you do it yourself or farm it out to a shop.(those little jets are not cheap @$80 a set, you'll want two sets for duels) Just Put the FI back in and be done with it, you've got all the help you need right here. like bd said it's hard to do it wrong there are no two plugs that could get mixed up. my FI has been running trouble free for over 15 years in three different busses. here a good place to start.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=281850
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SGKent wrote:
take a photo of the shaft in the bore so we can see it, and one of your tool.

[choadtx]

Kreuger, I live in Sherman and have a 78' FI bus. I pass Durant all the time. I wouldn't mind one bit to stop in and have you take a look at my setup and take some pics....

[Kreuger1]

Okay. Perhaps I need to look back at the FI set up afterall. I ordered a Bentley, should be here tomorrow. Its fairly intimidating to look at in a box. I'll lay it out tonight and see exactly what I'm working with.

Thank you for the info.

Choad, I may have to take you up on that. I talked with a guy named Kirk in Sherman with a FI bus, but his isn't running right now. Might be nice to look at yours.

[Randy in Maine]

Here is something else to read while you are waiting for the Bentley to show up....

http://manuals.type4.org/ljet/

And also the end of Bartnick Teck hass a nice description of how things work....

http://www.type2.com/bartnik/tech.htm

[BusterBrown]

[choadtx]

Crap, I wished I would've known. I have an extra Bently.. Yea, Kirk's isn't running too well. They usually meet up on the first tuesday of the month for the local VW club. It's lots of fun, you should definately check it out...