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mightyart
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 6188
Location: Portland, Oregon
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 Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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AlefgardHero
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 139
Location: MN, USA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Perales wrote: |
| dogmai333 wrote: |
All I know is that ethanol is not the way to go. it cots more to produce a gallon of ethanol than it is sold for. it won't be around for much longer if it is a losing business. |
You are joking, right?
Perhaps it won't make it as a fuel for vehicles, but that is ethanol in that martini you are drinking. Ethanol in your beer, ethanol in your wine, whiskey, gin, vodka... Ethanol will be around for a long, long time. |
what? really? no kiddin'? oh wait, we were talking about using it as a fuel.
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VeeVeeOne is my baby, She is a 1983.5 Vanagon GL (Two-Tone Blue Baby, Yeah!). |
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GeorgeL
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 7346
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| dogmai333 wrote: |
| All I know is that ethanol is not the way to go. it cots more to produce a gallon of ethanol than it is sold for. it won't be around for much longer if it is a losing business. |
You have little faith in the political clout of Midwestern congressmen... |
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82vegwesty
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2007
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Convert to WVO, it IS easy being green! |
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jjgray
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2007
Posts: 62
Location: Bellevue, WA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| GeorgeL wrote: |
Now, if they had figured out a way to convert previously-discarded materials, such as cornstalks, to fuel I'd be more impressed. |
That's what I'm hoping for, too. In the meantime, as long as you're aware of where your biodiesel comes from, it's still better than gas or diesel. And definitely better than ethanol. And as mentioned before, sources such as hemp and algae are showing a lot of promise.
| 8419p27 wrote: |
Does anyone know where the money collected from carbon taxes goes? |
It actually depends on the model, but in B.C. their carbon tax is revenue neutral. Basically, the tax revenues are returned to the citizens via rebates, so it's not going into government coffers. Alaska has a similar system with the royalties from oil in the north slope, giving all residents equal rebates.
Not everyone does it this way, so I'm not trying to make a case for the carbon tax as I'd need to research it vs. other options more. Just trying to rebut stuff like this:
| GeorgeL wrote: |
During the 16th century, indulgences were the Catholic church's promise that a deceased sinner would go to heaven if a survivor simply made a payment to the Church. Kind of a pay-after-play plan.
A carbon tax allows supposed environmentalists to indulge in what they consider "sinful" without guilt. |
Speak for yourself, GL. If that were the case, I'd be pushing for a "stripper tax." I think you're confusing the carbon tax with carbon offset credits (which can be more generally compared to "indulgences," but more accurately to actually trying to do something beyond just complain).
Carbon offset credits are credits you can purchase through various organizations to help neutralize your carbon output. Kind of the financial equivalent to planting a bunch of trees.
Ideally, a carbon tax isn't really a tax at all, in that it shouldn't be a source of revenue for the government (see revenue neutral above). The way I understand it, it's intended to provide an incentive for: a) energy companies to reduce emissions; and b) companies and consumers to pursue more clean, renewable sources. And whatever your feelings on global warming or overpopulation, you have to admit that would be a good thing.
Again, I'm not pushing for the carbon tax... yet. Just trying to provide some balance and actual information to the discussion.
_________________
"If I'd had more time, I'd have written less."
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1991 Carat "Caca Fuego"
smoked & tinted
Converted to 1.9TD running 100% Biodiesel |
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mightyart
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 6188
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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jjgray
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2007
Posts: 62
Location: Bellevue, WA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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Ha. Use those flatbed carts from Costco. Better cornering.
_________________
"If I'd had more time, I'd have written less."
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1991 Carat "Caca Fuego"
smoked & tinted
Converted to 1.9TD running 100% Biodiesel |
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Waldemar Sikorski
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2005
Posts: 573
Location: EU
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| That's what I'm hoping for, too. In the meantime, as long as you're aware of where your biodiesel comes from, it's still better than gas or diesel. And definitely better than ethanol. And as mentioned before, sources such as hemp and algae are showing a lot of promise. |
Nothing's better than ethanol-you break down-cheer your self up (unless you run out of fuel). |
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klucz
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2006
Posts: 1062
Location: Chicago, IL
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Waldemar Sikorski
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2005
Posts: 573
Location: EU
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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The Japanese hunt whales for scientific purposes. If you trust the scientists that is.
For some reason there's usually one individual that out of ignorance (according to Einstein at least) is able to prove that the entire scientific community is wrong.
Why is it profitable to produce ethanol in Brasil but not anywhere else?
The list is long. |
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mightyart
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 6188
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| 8419p27 wrote: |
| Since the majority of the scientific community has said that man-made global warming is a bunch of hot air anyway. |
The majority?
Are you quoting this guy?
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klucz
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2006
Posts: 1062
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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No, not quoting that guy. I was referring more to glacial cycles and the sun. Maybe its all wrong. I'm not a scientist or anything.
But, what are you guys saying exactly? |
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mightyart
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 6188
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not saying anything really except maybe "Vanagon".
To keep this post alive in a place that it doesn't belong, everybody seems to be enjoying it.
It was just the first time I heard that the majority of sceintists thought it was not man made, but that doesn't matter much anyway. |
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jjgray
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2007
Posts: 62
Location: Bellevue, WA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| 8419p27 wrote: |
Well, what GeorgeL said makes sense to me. Uninformed (or misinformed) people giving away their rights for guaranteed safety. Since the majority of the scientific community has said that man-made global warming is a bunch of hot air anyway, then what are we being taxed for?
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Which rights, exactly, are you speaking of? And which scientific community, for that matter?
I'm sure Columbus still had skeptics convinced the world was flat, too. But the debate on global warming is pretty much over, I'm afraid. And whether climate change is still reversible or not, no intelligent person can deny that our air quality should be better. It's just sad that people have to believe they're in imminent peril before they'll do something about it.
What's the point in fighting against smart, considered methods to drive cleaner energy? Sure, some solutions are better than others, so find out what those are and fight for them. Or just do them.
_________________
"If I'd had more time, I'd have written less."
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1991 Carat "Caca Fuego"
smoked & tinted
Converted to 1.9TD running 100% Biodiesel |
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mightyart
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 6188
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| jjgray wrote: |
| What's the point in fighting against smart, considered methods to drive cleaner energy? |
Show me a smart one and I'll consider it.
Oh and Vanagon. |
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ValleyHappy
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2007
Posts: 251
Location: Walla Walla, WA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.centredaily.com/news/local/story/414559.html
Well, just today in the State College paper (PSU) is an article on this topic. The past several weeks have included alot of speakers on global warming at the university. As you can see from the brief article, the scientific consensus on the topic does point the finger at humans.
As a person that has read research on the topic and worked on scientific projects in Antarctica......IMO Global Warming is Real. So get your rides ready for we are all going to be nomads, forced to leave our coastal cities.
In a way, I almost have no worries concerning global warming, the housing market or any general 'what the hell is the US doing' economic crisis....I own a Vanagon...a shelter on wheels. As an owner, you by-definition have the badge to take care of yourself and you family should the shit hit the fan. Vanagon owners are creative and resourceful folk. 
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09 Suzuki SX-4 Crossover |
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Waldemar Sikorski
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2005
Posts: 573
Location: EU
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| You might have to convert it to steam power or put a Sterling in it. |
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jjgray
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2007
Posts: 62
Location: Bellevue, WA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| ValleyHappy wrote: |
| Vanagon owners are creative and resourceful folk. |
Ha. Yeah, I guess we pretty much have to be.
In the interest of full disclosure, my Vanagon has had more than its share of demons that, among other things, caused the turbo to grenade on the freeway recently, spewing smoke the amounts of which I've only seen trailing behind Saturn rockets. So even in my best efforts, I've still filled my quota of polluting this year.
_________________
"If I'd had more time, I'd have written less."
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1991 Carat "Caca Fuego"
smoked & tinted
Converted to 1.9TD running 100% Biodiesel |
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hiram6
Samba Member
Joined: September 29, 2006
Posts: 1880
Location: Beautiful South
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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I can't take this argument seriously, I'm still chortling over the guys with the Vanagon on the grocery carts.
Good news is they can use the express lane, they only have one item!
Oh, I said the word Vanagon. Twice now. Just contributing to MightyArt's effort to keep some vanagon content. 
_________________
1985 Westy, 1.9L automatic (Daisy)
1996 Mazda Miata
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited
You can't lie around on the beach and drink rum all day.................unless you start first thing in the morning. |
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ValleyHappy
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2007
Posts: 251
Location: Walla Walla, WA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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"You might have to convert it to steam power or put a Sterling in it."
I feal a new thread coming on !!!
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09 Suzuki SX-4 Crossover |
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