Performance to reliability/maintenance....middle ground?

[oicdn]

I've been reading a bunch on here about people with thier daily drivers and there was one post specifically that was good:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=106877

Now, I was wondering, what's the best middle ground for having both performance and reliability/maintenance? As in, not rebuild my motor every 30K miles.

He said 2332 will get you roughly 30K miles. Pretty good I guess, considering you've got 200+HP ALL MOTOR....but a good 2332 will cost you only a little less than a stock Type 4....double the HP, 1/3 the life.

I've been looking at Type 4 motors, and that seems like a good route, but it's high dollar for the conversion etc. But you get around 100K per rebuild. 100 STOCK HP....

1776 he mentioned would last you a really good amount of time, I think "forever" was the term used. So I take that as 100K miles. Thats pretty equivalent to a stock Type 4? Half the cost....well, pretty cheap in comparison. But you don't have nearly the room for upgrading. But if you're just looking for a definite middle ground, who's looking to upgrade?

So I was looking at turboing. There's alot of guys on here with "small" turbo'd motors pushing 220+HP spending less than the cost of an equally built 2332 and having the daily driver reliability.

Wow, this is getting long....so what's your idea of a good middle ground daily driver with balls? Middle ground = performance, longevity and low(er) cost. I guess low-mid 13's is a good level. No updrading after the motor is installed. The DEFINITE config whether it be turbo, supercharged or all motor, getting bolted in. Any way to get those numbers with a solid reliable "Honda-like" engine?
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[Glenn]

My last engine was a 1904 and i put 80,000 daily driven miles on it in 3 years.

Quick specs were 40x37.5 ported and polished VW heads with single springs. Scat C35 cam with 1.25 ratio rockers. Berg 74mm CW crank, 12lb flywheel and rebuild VW rods. Compression was 8.5:1, carb were dual Dellorto 40 DLRAs with a 1-5/8" merged exhaust. Other items were 1.5qt deep sump and full flowed with a Fram HP1 filter.

The car had plenty of balls and was no more trouble than a stock engine. Regular oil change and valve every 3000 miles.

The short stroker added balls but not as much wear as a 82 or 84 stroke. Single springs were good to 6500rpm and didn't require weakening the guide bosses. 90.5 thick wall cylinders are just as good at stock.

So you can have your cake and eat it too.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

[vwracerdave]

I really like a 2007cc 90.5X78 No reason you can't get 100,000 miles with this combo, if you don't get crazy with cam and compression.
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[oicdn]

^^I've been drooling on your car since the 1st time I saw it. The fact that it's a sleeper just so sick.

How's your last engine compared to your current beast performance wise?
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[Glenn]

[oicdn]

How much do the differences between the two make for reliability?

Seeing as how this'll be my daily driver, I'll prolly be seeing what, 10-12K miles a year...maybe less, but unlikely. So the less maint., the better.

2007.....that's considered a radical cam and crazy compression for that motor?
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[Glenn]

A 2007 is the same as a 1904 which is the same as a 1776. The only differance is the crankl.

2007 has a 78mm, 1904 has a 74mm and 1776 has a 69mm
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

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[Jake Raby]

The stock 2.0 TIV is 100HP from the 914 spec 2.0.

A 100 HP stock engine cannot be beaten, especially when it has more torque at 2,000 RPM than 90% of the TIs you can build below 2100ccs do at their torque peak.

The engine in my 912 is built from all used parts ecept bearings, cam, lifters and the exhaust valves.. It just turned 84K since its birth in September of 2002. I have driven this car 18K miles between oil changes and have not adjusted a single valave since February of 03. That was 4 driver's ed sessions ago and 50K miles. I do check valve clearances but have not had to change a clearance in this many miles.

My other daily driver is the 180 HP 914 which has logged 8500 miles since March of this year... Even at 180 HP I feel confident enough to leave the bonnet closed and I might check the oil once a month.

Installing a TIV means the end of fiddling around with the engine- if the conversion is done right.

Nothing beats a stock displacement engine of 2000 ccs
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[oicdn]

[turbo_bob]

[Bruce]

78x90.5 Type 1 engine.
Stock rods,
40x35 ported heads,
40 or 45 DRLAs,
8.5-9:1
Fk-8 or FK-44 with 1.25 rockers
1 5/8" merged exh,
009 or single vacuum dist with Pertronix
Synthetic oil
Use all stock genuine VW cooling tin.


With this combo you can make 130hp with complete reliability. In a 60's Beetle without a lot of extra weight in it you should be able to run 13 second quarters.

IMO you need to build it big, but not so big that reliability suffers. If you go beyond 80mm in stroke with stock rods, the rod angle gets too great and the pistons start to scuff. 94s work great for many people, but I have not yet met one person that has had a set of 94s go 100k miles without a re-ring. I have heard of many examples of 90.5s doing this. Building it any smaller means you make less power with complete reliability.

I built my engine (as above) 3 1/2 years ago. I have not adjusted the valves in 2 years (check them a couple times a year, they never change). The intent of my engine was to be able to drive 10,000 miles between deck lid openings because I don't want to do maintenance on road trips.

If you know what you are doing when setting up an engine and carbs, there is no need to adjust or tweak anything.

Oh ya, my engine passes our annual smog test with lots of room to spare, even in my former EFI 75 Bug.

IMO building a T1 engine is the way to go. For the same money it takes to build a T4 engine with the cost of the conversion, you could build a T1 engine that would last 100k miles, then rebuild it for another 100k miles. The best thing about using a T1 engine in your T1 car is that everything fits, and parts are cheap.

[The Noof]

You should ALWAYS mention how much you're willing to spend when you ask a rhetorical question like that...money dictates everything. If you Have $7500 to spend, you can build a 275 hp 2110 or equivalent on a type 1 turbo platform that will still retain the type one's charisma, burn down most type 4 conversions, and last a very long time. i will argue this point to the end, because i have a similar car.

12.46@112 in a 2100 lb bug on street tire, pump gas.

[oicdn]

I was waiting for somebody ask how much I was going to spend...LOL. Actually, although my budget isn't endless, I'm willing to drop the cash if it means Honda-like maintenance and reliability. Of course, it's just a matter of deciding what set-up to do and just commit to it. Turbo-ing is definitly now in the picture...after seeing a couple people having commuters set-up that way....it's too is inspiring....and I like the sounds of BOV's

Type 1 charisma is nice, especially after seeing your run Noof. It's inspiring. And it's nice to see I don't have to spend $13K on a built to the hilt Raby TIV that'll prolly never die. Ultimately, if I had $13K, that'd be the route I'de go...but seeing as how this isn't a competition car, but a daily driver, that's overkill. It'd be damn nice to have though.....
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[danimal]

spending $13k on a type 4 would be a foolish waste of money... why blow the wad on pig-motor performance??

if honda longevity was really the only goal, you'd abandon aircooled motors entirely, and plug something modern in there, like a subaru motor.
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...

[Kalen1970]

[The Noof]

[bug man nrg]

This goes for turbo or N/A aircooled VW engines:
2276 82 x 94
5.4 rod
K-8 cam w 1.4 R/R, N/A
V-26 cam w 1.5 R/R, turbo
CB 044 super mag round port 42 x 37, turbo
CB 044 ultra mag 42 x 37, N/A
static C/R 7.8:1 turbo
static C/R 8.5:1 N/A
dual 44 IDFs or 45 Dells

You can expect to have 160 to 180 wheel H/P, N/A
Or 180 wheel H/P or more depending on intercooling[/quote]

this is a sweet combo to have a bit on the big side for me i like the 2007cc or 2054cc turbo efi
.turbo bob's combo will hold up fo 40,000+ mile if you do try to kill it from light ot light every day