Liquid cooled rad placement

[SHMO]

There are alot of guys running H20 motors in Bajas these days. Lately with all the talk about Ecotec, Subaru and other water heaters, I think more swaps are on the burner for a lot of us. One of the biggest hurdles in an H20 swap is the radiator and where to put it. I would like to cover as much regarding the subject as possible to help us all make the best decision on how to go about it. There are only so many locations to mount them, and each place seems to have it's drawbacks. Currently, I am thinking of any and all options on where to place a radiator for my swap. I know alot of you guys are doing the same. maybe we can use this thread to put our heads together and toss some ideas around.

Today (might be different tomorrow), I am thinking my best option is to mount it up front. But, where to run the cooling lines? Inside of the car would be best protected, but what about the interior heat of the car during warm weather? Would that make it unbearable, or is the heat even a concern? I would think running the lines down ther heater channels or inside the tunnel would be an obvious location. But, what about running the lines underneath the car? You could tuck them up where the body and the pan meets to make them less vulnerable to damage. The hard part with this plan is making a clean transition from underneath the car and through the wheel wells to the motor and radiator up front.

I was also thinking another option for a front mount would be in the stock fuel tank location with the fans pointing up and the radiator laying flat. However, I am not sure about the ability to flat mount a radiator like this, and would it get enough airflow in that location?

I have heard and seen a few pics of guys mounting rads on the engine cage, above the engine cage, behind the driver seat, in place of the factory firewall and even flat mounted just above the transaxle. I am going to post pics of every rad mounting combination I can find on the internet, along with as much info as possible. What plans or ideas are some of you pondering? Give us your pros and cons.

SHMO
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[SHMO]

Other than how to route the cooling lines, this seems like the most logical place to me.

SHMO

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[SHMO]

Rear mounted in the parcel tray. This one has a very small looking rad, but fits with plenty of room to spare. My question here is, will it flow enough air to work? And another problem is that fan noise will be brutal on the inside of the car. It's still an option.

SHMO

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SHMO's Baja

[SHMO]

Some coolant line routing info on this link.

http://bb.bbboy.net/vwengineconversions-viewthread?forum=20&thread=1

SHMO
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[SHMO]

This one still makes me wonder about the air flow. The location is great however, and it might work well.

SHMO

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[SHMO]

This guy mounted his up radiator front like a conventional car. His copper cooling lines run right down each side of the tunnel. this setup looks pretty decent, but I would consider mounting both of the lines on the passenger side stacked on top of each other. Routing down the drivers side of the car will not allow the use of a factory pedal assembly.

SHMO

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[imp558]

this has been on my mind too. Has anybody tried going with a significantly smaller radiator and just using 2 of them? With these inline engines there should be room on either side of the engine to mount one. That way there would be airflow to both of them, and they would be closer to the engine ( shorter lines= less vulnerable lines I reason) and they would have a smaller footprint. Imp558

[TurboLark]

I'm looking at 2 options.
1- Make a rear wing and mount the radiator nearly horizontal with fans pulling from below, or
2- using 2 small radiators. One on each side of the engine, facing forward. Since I am byuilding a Manx, i ws planning on building a kind of duct air path down the sidesof the car, between the fiberglass tub and the aluminum side panel(like on sandrails where all the graphics are painted). I'm liking 2 the more i think of it, and that will leave the wing for the big intercooler.
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MB Products 4 seat beam chassis - 091 trans, 2332 VW

[SHMO]

Wouldn't running two radiators make a mess of the cooling line routing? And, how would you go about mounting them, just build brackets off each side of the engine cage? I would think that would put both radiators right in harms way.

I have seen the setup that Turbolark is referring to. For my car it wouldn't work without looking like an abortion. But if done nicely, it could look decent on a conventional Baja with a roof.

SHMO
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SHMO's Baja

[SHMO]

This guy cut away the stock parcel area, then mounted his rad over the transaxle. Apparantly this car cools exceptionally well with a 200hp V-6. It looks like some work to fabricate and rebuild the sheetmetal, but it might be a good way to go. Notice the angle on the rad. I can see how the airflow would come up from the ground and blow through the radiator nicely.

SHMO

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[TurboLark]

[TurboLark]

[Jowlz]

I'll add a couple things to think about. Alot of how well a radiator cools has to do with which way you are forcing air thru the radiator. All of the examples shown work because of this. I'm not sure front mounting would gain any cooling capability. If you want to mount in the rear say in the boot area..you could mount a couple of NACA ducts to route air to the radiator. Running tubes thru the passenger compartment would be like having radiant heat in your house. It would work the same way. Heat would always be on. I think running thru the heater channels would be a great idea. Running under the car I am not sure of. Figure a good sized rock hit to the cooling lines would ruin your day fairly quickly. When fabricating I believe in Keeping is simple. I think somewhere on the back end would make the most sense. I also think that the picture that Turbolark commented on....the air would be forced down over the trans...not pulled up thru it.
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The honey-do list put my project on hold.......

[SHMO]

Regarding the "over the tranny" loaction, I think that guy does have the car completely sealed off with sheet metal. There are just no pics showing it completed. I would think that the air comes up from under the car, blows through the rad and exits past the motor.

When mounting two radiators on the sides of the motor, what would keep them from being struck by rocks or debris being thrown by the tires? I am just leary of this idea. However, I still think it is worth considering. Has anyone seen a setup mounted like this? Seeing it would clarify things a lot. It is always easier to improve on somebody elses example.

As for mounting the cooling lines inside the car, do you think the heater channels would offer a noticeable amount of insulation to keep the cars interior heat down? Like you mentioned about radiant heat, I would think the heater channels would eventually build heat as well and radiate it into the car. It might take a little longer than an exposed cooling line running beside the tunnel, but the same effect might happen. Any know, or have a good idea about this?

SHMO
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SHMO's Baja

[SHMO]

This setup is mounted over the rear of the car. This is probably the easiest approach possible, but it kind of looks like it was the "easiest approach possible". To dress it up, I guess a guy could build some aluminum panels to simulate a pro-stock type wing. Either way, this one looks obtrusive, but would work just fine. One cool idea on this one, is the use of chrome plumbing line. The type used under sink faucets. They would work for straight runs, for an elbow joint and they look nice. Good idea.

SHMO

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[HamburgerBrad]

if you mounted the radiator above the tranny, you could always use your metalworking skills to fab some cool scoops into the rear quarter panels like on the hood of a subaru sti

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OGST | CU05 | OGJHC
1970 baja|1953 oval

Wanted: two beat up, ugly, curb rashed 6" phone dial wheels

[Jowlz]

That red bug has given me lots of ideas for my bug. Some of the things he has done trouble me and sometimes make me think that I go way overkill when I design or build something. For instance. I look at his radiator design and wonder why he didnt tie the rear of the radiator frame down to the bumper cage. I also wonder what kind of fans he used. If they are pushing air up and out., or pulling it down over the engine? Normal thinking would say those fans push air, but you never know until you look at the fans. I would think you would get better cooling by pulling fresh air from the top of the radiator thru it, then over the engine. The great thing about that project is everything seems to be working for him.

Another idea would be to tilt that same set up he has the other way...like a raised up deck lid. Mount it to the rear bumper cage and to the firewall. Let it blow air almost straight down over the motor.

SHMO I think you are right with worrying about debris coming off the tires and hitting the side mount radiators.
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The honey-do list put my project on hold.......

[Jowlz]

Something like this:

Enclose the sides and top in stainless. Mount fans under if room if not top mount. Have them blow threw.


Looking at the picture I just posted above I guess it would have to on a slight angle to allow for an overflow.
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The honey-do list put my project on hold.......

[SHMO]

Hey Jowlz....quit fabbin on my car. Now you got grinding dust and weld splatter all over the paint job....sheeesh

Ok all jokes aside, I think that red bug does pull the air down through the radiator and over the motor. I am sure the airflow through the rad this way would work well. the air flows over the top of a bug in perfect fashion for a setup like that. However, he has had his fair share of problems with that car, the radiator mount being one of them. Originally he solid mounted the radiator and it ultimately failed. That's a tough lesson to learn, and one I would like to avoid. He is now using rubber mounts, And who knows if it will last this time. The car hasn't seen a lot of miles or usage.

Moving on, I took Jowlz advice and placed a radiator over my engine cage like that to size it up. It would block some of the accessibility to the motor, but that would be a tradeoff to having the radiator mounted in a hard to reach place as well. It also wouldn't show off the motor very well, but that is just asthetics and wouldn't mechanically effect anything. Man, the decisions a guy has to make....haha

SHMO

Ps: nice photo shop job
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SHMO's Baja

[SHMO]

Here is a link with a couple tips on fitting a radiator in the front of the car. There is also a little info regarding the thermostat.

http://www.geocities.com/zenjoe/cooling.html

SHMO
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