Polyurethane VS Rubber Bushings

[brice]

I went ahead and bought rubber bushings from http://www.bughaus.com/ . I could have got the urethane ones from http://www.cip1.com/ for *less*. I like to outfit my car w/ parts saying "Made in Germany". Don't ask me why... but here's what I figured:

This is what the convention of this forum states -->

POLY ADVANTAGES --
Easy to put in.
Last forever.
Cheaper (???)

POLY DISADVANTAGES -
Don't say "Made in Germany"

RUBBER ADVANTAGES -
Say "Made in Germany"

RUBBER DISADVANTAGES -
Hard to put in.
Wear out.
Expensive (???)

Now... isn't the *whole point* of the bushing, being rubber and all, to take the wear & tear of daily driving -- so that your track control arm & swaybar don't feel it (as bad)? Thus, going w/ a material that has better shock absorption would be the best choice... and hence my decision to go with rubber.

I dunno.

But here I am stuck w/ rubber bushings to put in.. and I'm thinking I'll take the parts to a front end/alignment shop to have them press out the old ones & press in the new --- or is there a DIY method ??

Thanks!

Brice

[3Bugs]

I’m not an expert on the different characteristics between rubber and polyurethane but I can speak from experience of being a 7 year owner of a 72 Super Beetle.

Super beetles have the dreaded shimmy that effects my car between 45 and 55MPH. When I first tried to elevate this problem I purchased all new rubber (VW branded but cannot tell you if all German) for my control arms and torsion bar. After about 4 months the shimmy came back. I then discovered (I was new to supers then) that there is a bushing in the idler arm and assumed that this was my problem. Replaced that with a rubber replacement and experienced much improvement. But again, after about 4 months the problem came back, not as bad but still there.

Then I got the Top Line ( http://www.toplineparts.com/frameset.html ) kit for my year and replaced all but the idler arm bushing. Top Line manufacturers and sells the Polyurethane type bushings. After driving the car for about 4 years the bushings still held up well with only a moderate shimmy when I reach 60 but gone before 65. I just recently restored the car and replaced all the suspension with new Polyurethane parts.

As for the DIY…

The outer bushings on my car did not need to be pressed in. I did do the inners myself by making my own press out of a large socket (I think it was 32MM), some large washers and a nut and bolt. The same method was used for the idler arm bushing but it was not as easy to do.

Put open end of socket on one side of bushing, add washer to drive end of socket, put other washer on top of bushing. Thread the bolt through the holes and tighten with the nut until the bushing pops into the socket. Same method used for installing. Life was made easier by using an impact wrench.
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3Bugs
Well, actually a 67 Bug, 72 Super, 61 Ghia and a 2004 Beetle Vert (sorry)

[brice]

[David Grason]

[george4888]

Everyone , I know, uses the urethane bushing from Bugpack, as they come with a special lube grease, which stops them from making a squeaking noise. That is the generally accepted method of fixing the shake on the Super Beetles. The rubber ones, German or not, do not last long enough, in harse environments. I know they last only a few years along the Gulf Coast of Texas. We have too high of polution levels here.

---George4888
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1969 Beetle, 2007cc engine

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[Shane]

The biggest disadvantage I've noticed since switching to urethane is road noise. If you get a total kit that replaces everything under the car, do not use the tranny mounts. They make it so loud you can't hear yourself think in the car. They're great if you race, but terrible for a daily driver.

Aside from that, they're well worth the money. Use the lithium grease and they'll not squeak and last for years.
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[george4888]

I would never think of using urethane mounts on my tranny or engine, but maybe only for a race car. But, on race car only applications, the solid metal ones are the normal way to go. So, I do not understand what the urethane mounts are good for. I do like them on the suspension parts. They take lots of play out of the rear trailing arms and are a good fix, for worn out front beams, on the regular beetles. And, I agree, use the grease.

----George4888
_________________
Home of Karacostas Car ( VW) Repair
"Keeping old VW's running like New!"
Past NHRA and IHRA drag racer
www.bayareavwclub.com
1969 Beetle, 2007cc engine

"Life is hard, but it's harder when you are stupid."

[Desertbusman]

I agree with the polly on front suspension and keeping rubber on the tranny and engine.
I tried rubber control arm bushings and they fell apart in a couple years. When I took them out I noticed "made in India" Regardless the next set were pollys from Topline not Bugpack. After 5 years there doing great. My Super thinks they're super-
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71 Superbug
71 Westy

[sempaipaul]

Guys,

So what's the consensus? Polyurethaine or, rubber? I just picked up a 1971 and about to change all bushings. What's the best brand of each? What do you guys know about IAP parts.... seems as this is mostly what Rockauto supplies for these cars.

Thanks,
Paul

[Tim Donahoe]

Paul, go with vendors that sell VW parts--mostly. They have more expertise with the kind of car you just purchased.

If it were me, I'd go with original-type rubber on everything, but for your front end, you may have to buy these parts separately.

Tim
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Richard O'Brien

[volksworld]

the only rubber super track arm bushings that were worth a damn were the genuine ones from vw themselves...and i think they were no longer available last time i checked...all the aftermarket ones the rubber was too soft and the sleeve was too small in diameter...resulting in more soft rubber=shimmy....at this point urethane is a better choice for those two...but not much else

[sempaipaul]

For the rubber bushings --- are there any better particular brands out there?

For Polyurethane --- has anyone used this kit? Looks like a pretty good way to replace every bushing component in front and rear...

http://www.mamotorworks.com/VW/product/total-urethane-kit_308074

Thanks,
Paul

[Tim Donahoe]

Paul, to begin with, you'll notice that the item is backordered--as a great many items from Mid America seem to be all the time.

Get Topline. There is a huge difference in quality, even though they both are urethane.

Tim
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Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[vamram]

I rebuilt my '72's front end 2+ years ago using top line urethane controller arm etc bushings. Then because I'm looking for ways to soften the ride, went back to rubber control arm bushings I bought from CIP1. They lasted *barely* 4 weeks. Reinstalled the urethane ones, shimmy gone again.

I have a squeak now though. I didn't have any of that grease left. Does anyone know if it can be bought at a FLAPS or online without having to buy a new bushing set?
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[andk5591]

This will last you a while....If you look, I am sure they have smaller containers. http://www.amazon.com/Energy-Suspension-9-11104-Tub-Lubricant/dp/B000MW5SJ4
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[Juanito84]

[rockerarm]

[[email protected]]

Yes, if considering bushings for a Super, polyurethane is the ONLY way to go. I got a set of Energy Suspension Bushings in the early 90's before Buckpack even came out with them. 20+ years, and some 70k miles later, I finally had a forward swaybar pivot bushing wear out. The black Energy Suspension 15.3107 set is what I used on my 74 Super.