Isocynate free paint?

[RichBenn]

OK, I'm a newbie to modern paints. I have a compressor, HVLP gun and mask that can support most paints and dust, but I now find that isocynates require a positive pressure fresh air system to be safe.

Are there any paint systems that don't require this postive pressure system for safety? I initially thought single stage acrylic enamels didn't have isocynates, but it appears they require a hardener which is loaded with it. Are there any other options? I'm painting just two daily drivers, so am not interested in show car or great restoration quality, but don't wanna drag it down to the "Earl Scheib/Maaco" econo level either, at least from what I've heard of the quality. I'd hate to waste all that labor we'll spend on body prep and sanding.

Thanks in advance,
Rich

[Matt K.]

If you are doing your own car, 3M makes a complete respirator face mask, it covers the eyes, nose and mouth. Then just wear a spray suit and gloves. Works great.
_________________
This is my 23rd year in the Auto Body/Paint Game!
*Take a look at some of my custom paint: http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/mrpaint_2006/ .( NOTE: these are some older jobs but still neat.)

[RichBenn]

[Matt K.]

True, charcoal based respirators do not get all of it but for the ammount you are doing it wont be that much of an issue, fresh air systems are really for the person who sprays on a daily basis.
_________________
This is my 23rd year in the Auto Body/Paint Game!
*Take a look at some of my custom paint: http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/mrpaint_2006/ .( NOTE: these are some older jobs but still neat.)

[i_want_a_pre_49_ratbeetle]

check with PPG they used to have a 2 stage base coat clear coat non isocynate the dbu series i believe
been a little while but systems without issocynates wont gloss out like a issocynate will you will still have a good shine.. but no major depth if you want a depth look to it?
seen some dupont clears that really gave depth but they had issocynates though....

best thing is get a breather system.. & there is some improvised systems that use compressor air.. & filter that.. & if compressor is outside you wont breathe the issocynate contaminated air but are you getting all of oil mist etc out of compressor air with the cheap disposable filters for the compressor systems?? i dont like them but know they exist...
Randy

[dlxcoupe]

PPG system... I am using the Primer surfacer NCP-271 (gray) right now and it is free of the Isocynates.. Body shops are liking this stuff because it is a lot safer .. expensive too! Good primer because it has an etch quality for bare metal plus it does a nice job of high build plus can be used as a final sealer.

[RichBenn]

[RichBenn]

[dlxcoupe]

Rich,, the way I look at it, It is too way to much work to correctly prepare a car for paint and then not apply a quality paint system . If a person is on a limited budget - then that is another matter. Cheaper paints just don't have the longevity of the better systems.. I think whatever choice you come up with, you will be happy with...

[i_want_a_pre_49_ratbeetle]

well back in the mid to late 1990's i worked in a Cadillac Oldsmobile & Honda dealer & all they used was non issocynate based ppg paints...on every car they sprayed for the years i was there

they switched to R&M issocynate based paints & refused to buy a supplied air system & started spraying cars in shop with it & not just in the booth.. so i walked out later that week....

reason for switching was cost.. they saved close to 1/2 costs & was able to buy more supplies to make the shop better... but without me....


lack paint as far as i know should be free of issocynates.. & as far as dragging 2 hoses it really isnt as bad as you think. the breathing is clipped to your belt & you dont really have to carry it just watch after it & where it goes... only have to hand carry the main supply hose for paint gun

as far as painting goes dont worry too much about them.. but it is good to be cautious... 2 cars in your life time shouldnt bother you.. but when i spray issocynates at home it is outside in the open.. & im using old style suction binks gun... but in a enclosed area it is best to error in the safety side.. & do what is best for your health...

i do know a guy that sprayed lots with only a charcoal mask... he now has viloent reactions to paint.. cant paint anymore he was spraying dupont paints some of the nasty stuff 15 to 20 years ago.. cant remember the names but he lives a couple streets over from me.. but he is only guy i know that has had any health problems from painting

Randy

[luckystiff]

probably IMRON. if so you now know 2. i started using it in auto body shop in high school at 15. developed breathing problems and had to stop painting by 22. they reformulated IMRON shortly after that...ken....

[Matt K.]

[vwjw]

Go online and look around a bit. You can find a relatively inexpensive fresh air system and it will be money well spent and you'll have it for the next project(s). Charcoal filters do nothing to stop isocyans and they are deadly. The effects of breathing this stuff are cumulative and the damage they cause can be irreversible. They cure in moist environments like your lungs and cause liver failure.

IMHO as much as I love my cars they are not worth the risk of long term health problems.

[PierreDeKat]

First let me say that this, in no way, constitutes a recommendation. You, alone, are responsible for your own personal health.

But I myself am spraying a daily driver with acrylic enamel and a hardener that contains isocyanates, and I'm not using a positive pressure fresh air system.

But what I am doing is painting in my driveway with plenty of fresh air being supplied by the light summer breeze wafting through. And of course, I'm using a decent canister-type respirator.

I would not even think about spraying this stuff in a closed-air environment like a garage without the proper equipment, but I haven't had any problems spraying outdoors with a decent respirator.

And yes, I have had a couple mosquitoes and some other little crap land in my paint, but that stuff does wet sand out with very little work involved.

So I guess what I'm saying is that, if you're just doing the DIY thing on one or two cars, and you really don't have the scratch to buy an air system, you might be able to get by doing what I'm doing.

But heck, when you think about it, there's all kinds of stuff that will kill you. Carbon monoxide causes brain damage and death if you breath enough of it, as does alcohol if you drink enough of it.

And how many of us lie awake at night worrying about the brain damage and liver damage we've caused ourselves drinking beer, huh?

Now, check out what you'll find on the back of a rattle-can of Krylon:

"This product contains chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm. Vapor Harmful. Use with adequate ventilation. Avoid continuous breathing of vapor and spray mist. To avoid breathing vapor or spray mist, open windows and doors or use other means to ensure fresh air entry during application and drying. If you experience eye watering, headaches or dizziness, increase fresh air or wear respiratory protection (NIOSH/MSHA TC 23 or equivalent) or leave the area. HARMFUL OR FATAL IF SWALLOWED. If swallowed, do not induce vomiting. Call a physician immediately. Avoid contact with skin and eyes. First Aid: In case of contact with eyes: flush with plenty of water for 15 minutes, get medical attention. For skin contact: wash thoroughly with soap and water. In case of respiratory difficulty, provide fresh air and call a physician. NOTICE Reports have associated repeated and prolonged occupational overexposure to solvents with permanent brain and nervous system damage. Intentional misuse by deliberately concentrating and inhaling contents may be harmful or fatal. Keep away from children."

And how many of us have sprayed Krylon without so much as a paper dust mask on? I know I have, many times. Now, I'm not making light of the safety risks -- far from it -- but you know, it's not like any of us is going to live forever anyway, huh?

Again, this is not a recommendation, so don't everybody start ganging up on me.
_________________
68 Beetle
And keeping my eye out for a Kombi or a Microbus!

[RichBenn]

[vwjw]

Can't you just spray a single stage enamel? Takes a bit more experience with the gun and is less forgiving in terms of sanding bugs out of the paint, but no iso problem and will give you a factory type look. Not nearly as shiny as the deep gloss you get with the BC/CC systems but if you are just trying to wind up with a nice looking driver it should work well and a fresh charcoal can type repirator will be adequate to stop the fumes. Cheaper too.

[RichBenn]