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Teeroy 
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Joined: April 20, 2003
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Location: Eastern WA
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 Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:15 am Post subject: Cam bearing tang |
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Going through my parts for my 1776 , I opened up my Berg modified Glyco double thrust cam bearings , and see that the tang is filed off both halfs of the thrust bearing . Is there enough crush on the thrust bearing to run it as is ? Or do I need to make a tang in the one half ? Can't seem to find my tech book at the moment .
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gerg
a.k.a. 6volt65
Joined: April 25, 2003
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Location: Monroe, LA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:45 am Post subject: |
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I just read in the Berg literature last night that they beleive the tang is not needed.
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MConstable
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Location: Saint Charles IL
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:50 am Post subject: |
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New cases don't have the slot for the tang...everybody either files the tang off, or notches the case...usually the former.
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Teeroy
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:50 am Post subject: Cam bearing tang |
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Yep , just found mine , says enough crush on the thrust bearing , to not need the tang .
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1961bluebug
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Location: Czech Republic, Europe
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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today I robbed thrust bearing halves from two sets of Kolbenschmidt type 1 bearings and the thrust halves doesn´t have a tang on them. So will I be OK running dual thrust cam bearing with no tang? I suppose engine case crush will hold them correctly, but wanna be sure..
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Scott Novak
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Joined: October 12, 2004
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Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone ever use Loctite sleeve and bearing retainer under their cam bearings, main bearings, or rod bearings?
Scott Novak |
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gonebuggy
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Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Scott Novak wrote: |
Does anyone ever use Loctite sleeve and bearing retainer under their cam bearings, main bearings, or rod bearings?
Scott Novak |
I wouldn't recommend that. It takes up "space" and will increase the bearing crush.
Alex |
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1961bluebug
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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all manuals recommend to install all bearings dry, so that is what I´m gonna do..
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|82x94|
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SRP1
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Joined: January 06, 2007
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Scott Novak wrote: |
Does anyone ever use Loctite sleeve and bearing retainer under their cam bearings, main bearings, or rod bearings?
Scott Novak |
Bad idea, it expands as it dries pushing the bearing into the journal, and minimizes clearances.
No tang on a single thrust bearing, crazy.
No tang on a dual thrust bearing, not in any engine I will ever build!
The bearings float enough as it is when the engine is at operating temp.
Did the Berg article happen to mention the type of cam gear being used for this, was it straight cut perhaps?
In theory the bearings are crush fit even on the mains, the only reason for the pins on the mains is to align the oil holes.
IMO though this is different for the cam bearings, they are crush fit, but those tangs are there to locate the bearing and keep it in place. |
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venomous-67
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:03 am Post subject: |
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In Berg GB801 Tech book he states all bearings are crush from the case.
Glyco was the brand of bearing.
Mahle sell a double thrust set. |
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Scott Novak
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| SRP1 wrote: |
No tang on a single thrust bearing, crazy.
No tang on a dual thrust bearing, not in any engine I will ever build!
The bearings float enough as it is when the engine is at operating temp. |
| SRP1 wrote: |
| Did the Berg article happen to mention the type of cam gear being used for this, was it straight cut perhaps? |
Berg claimed that he had never had a cam bearing turn in over 24 years. He never used the tangs. He only used case crush to hold the bearings in place. Berg only sells the cam bearings sets with two thrust bearing halves. For triple valves springs or Chevy springs he recommended straight cut cam gears. Otherwise he used the stock cam gears.
Berg also did NOT recommend align boring cases. And if you did you also needed to stress relieve the cases which was more money than it was worth to properly. I believe another part of the operation is to remove the case studs and shave the mating surfaces flat.
With a fresh engine case I'm sure that the likelyhood of a cam bearing spinning is less than a used case that was pounded out of round enough to need align boring.
Scott Novak
Last edited by Scott Novak on Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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1961bluebug
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:19 am Post subject: |
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Tonight I´ll practice on leftower bearing shells on how hard is to create a tang and I´ll see.
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|82x94|
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[email protected]
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| MConstable wrote: |
| New cases don't have the slot for the tang...everybody either files the tang off, or notches the case...usually the former. |
Do you mean for the other half of the double thrust cam bearing sets? Because all new cases have notches for stock cam bearings.
As for "tang vs no tang"; I have built engines both ways with no problems. |
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Jimmy111
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:55 am Post subject: |
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The Tang is to keep the bearing from spinning if the oil pump siezes up or if you have a lack of oil pressure when using a steel cam gear It doesent always keep it from happening. If the oil pump siezes the cam gear is slammed back against the bearing very hardand can turn the bearing. If the bearing turns even a little it will start to wear very quickly.
I would say if you have the tangs use them but if not you will probably not have any problem
All cases have at least one grove cut for the tang but I have seen them without any too.
No loctite. |
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turboblue
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Location: Central Indiana
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Berg claimed that he had never had a cam bearing turn in over 24 years. |
Pretty doubtful he tore down every engine he had ever built to verify that.
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SRP1
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| Not everything Berg did was correct either, what purpose would there be in removing a tang that VW engineers felt needed to be in place. |
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vw1964type1
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Joined: May 29, 2008
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Location: South Africa
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:29 am Post subject: |
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OK, I didn't know the thrust bearings had tangs, I bought two sets of KS bearings for my build, None of the thrust bearings had tangs on. Should I be worried? I think not.
My dad has been my partner during the build and we both agreed that you could spend years debating this and that and never actually build an engine because you might become afraid of forgetting something or fitting the wrong part. I honestly believe that tang or no tang you will have bigger headaches to worry about should the bearings be able to turn in the case.
But that is just MHO and I have only built two type1 engines thus far.
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vugbug68
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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my Mahle dual thrust bearings have tangs on both bearings but my case only has a groove for one, (its a stock AH dual relief case)
Should I cut a groove in the case or file it off the bearing?
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SRP1
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| File it off the one side. |
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vugbug68
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:33 am Post subject: |
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I ended up cutting a small groove in the case, removing the tang would make the bearing real thin in that spot. also its much easier to file soft magnesium then a hard bearing.
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