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Lowering and leveling the Type 3 - video
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cugir
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:42 pm    Post subject: Lowering and leveling the Type 3 - video Reply with quote

Moderator note:
cugir has removed the videos below.


I have new video for lowering and leveling the 69 IRS Type 3 online at youtube.

The video for the front end is in 2 parts and the video for the rear is in 4 parts.

The front end video is basic and only covers inner spline adjustments.

The rear end video is more in depth and also covers combination tuning moves to make small adjustments for leveling the car in part 3.




Link

Lowering the VW Type 3 rear - Part 1 of 4





Link

Lowering the VW Type 3 rear - Part 2 of 4





Link

Lowering the VW Type 3 rear - Part 3 of 4





Link

Lowering the VW Type 3 rear - Part 4 of 4









Link

Lowering the 69 VW Type 3 FRONT- Part 1 of 2




Link

Lowering the 69 VW Type 3 FRONT- Part 2 of 2


Last edited by cugir on Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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aveyinc
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope this gets made into a sticky.
Although you do fastfoward a little too much on part four on the rear.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aveyinc wrote:
I hope this gets made into a sticky.
Although you do fastfoward a little too much on part four on the rear.


this is EXACTLY what i needed. cugir i hope they make your suspension videos and threads into a sticky.
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cugir
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aveyinc wrote:

Although you do fastfoward a little too much on part four on the rear.


It was tough to decide what parts to fast forward through.
I was just going to cut that last part out or just say 'assembly opposite of disassembly'.
I was trying to keep the video as short as possible so it didn't go into a 5th part. Youtube has a 10 minute limit as well so I was also editing for that.

The one part I would have liked to slow down was the few seconds I talked about rear alignment.
Rear alignment toe in/out is adjusted by pushing the brake drum toward the front or rear of the car then tightening the 4 bolts that connect the spring plate to the diagonal trailing arm. You can measure across the tread from the left tire to the right tire to measure the toe though a professional alignment is the best idea.

Rear tire Toe measurements according to Bentley pg 1-76
T3 Sedan and SB (swing Axle) -5 degrees (-5 minutes listed on pg 7-37)
T3 sedan (IRS) +5 degrees (+5 minutes listed on pg 7-37)
SB (IRS) 0 degrees
I'm not sure weather to belive pg 1-76 or 7-37, luckily I have a SB so 0 rear for me.


Front tire toe settings are made by turning the tie rods after loosening the ends. I've not done this and will pay a pro to do it once my final height is chosen.

Front tire toe setting according to Bentley pg 7-5
1/8" toe in (distance between rear sides of front tires greater than front side)


Did you have any specific questions about that last part?
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BerT3 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amazing !

You can always become a teacher Smile

Good info etc..

Definatly has to be a sticky !

BerT3
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Mike Fisher
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn kids put us old timers to shame w/new age video etc!
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EverettB Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aveyinc wrote:
I hope this gets made into a sticky.
Although you do fastfoward a little too much on part four on the rear.


I haven't watched them yet but I added it to the FAQ at the top of this section.
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aveyinc
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cugir wrote:
aveyinc wrote:

Although you do fastfoward a little too much on part four on the rear.

Did you have any specific questions about that last part?


Oh... not really. Just felt like maybe I was missing something with all the talking you were doing...

Anyone feel like making a vid for lowering a swing axle rear?
Anxious
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cugir
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
aveyinc wrote:
I hope this gets made into a sticky.
Although you do fastfoward a little too much on part four on the rear.


I haven't watched them yet but I added it to the FAQ at the top of this section.




SWEET, he didn't see the bikini girls or the monkey. Cool
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cugir
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aveyinc wrote:
cugir wrote:
aveyinc wrote:

Although you do fastfoward a little too much on part four on the rear.

Did you have any specific questions about that last part?


Oh... not really. Just felt like maybe I was missing something with all the talking you were doing...

Anyone feel like making a vid for lowering a swing axle rear?
Anxious


The swing rear looks to be the same as the IRS only less.
The sticky thread has great pics.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=188457


Most of the talking during the fast part was mumbling. I knew I was going to speed it up when I filmed it so I didn't do much real talking.

Another important thing I might have been talking about though was the torque on the 6 CV bolts. The torque is 25 lbs per Bentley but I just tightend as tight as I could with a small ratchet to avoid stripping.
I also continue to use the lock washers on the CV bolts even though they are discontinued to avoid having bolts that are too long.

These are tips I picked up here. I'm still pretty green.
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cugir
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are the numbers I had written on the paper in the video when talking about leveling. The spline info was taken from the Bentley manual and the height changes were made from measurements on my car.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.





Below are diagrams to illustrate lowering and tuning moves on the rear springplate. Rear notches lower or raise the car about 2" each with the inner lowering a little more than the outer.
By doing a combo tuning move you can lower or raise ther rear in appx 1/3" increments. To move the rear up or down 1/3 inch, spin the inner notches one click in the desired direction and reseat, then spin the outer notches one click in the opposite direction and reseat. An angle finder helps to confirm the move.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.








Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
before tuning, low on drivers side.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
after tuning, perfectly level.
-4 inner RF
-3 inner LF





Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
rear before tuning, very low on drivers side.




Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
rear perfectly level.
-2 outer RR
-1 outer LR then -4 tuning moves




Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
1/4" higher in front than back, even with full tank.
Not counting the tuning moves, this is -4 front and -2 back on 195/60/15 and stock 4.5 inch wheels. Rubs up front at full lock with passengers.


Now to straighten those bumpers.


More info on the progress of this car here,
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=215128


Last edited by cugir on Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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spoon
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cugir wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Now to straighten those bumpers.


Got any tips for that, btw?
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cugir
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spoon wrote:
cugir wrote:
Now to straighten those bumpers.


Got any tips for that, btw?



No proven ones.

I plan to remove the chrome from the support frame and try to bang out the dent and bend it into shape. Then look at the shape of the bumper frame and see if I can twist it somehow.

My car has been hit up front so who knows.

I may also try bending it on the car by using a floor jack under the low side of the bumper and jumping on the fender Twisted Evil

or maybe a wench tied to a tree above to lift the bumper into place.
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Mike Fisher
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Chrome Shops will take out all the dents before rechroming. It's usually included in the price. I'm not sure about twists, but they might do that too?
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sharkskinman
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so from original stance of a fastback
would you go 3 in front and 2 in back
and is the preferance of either inner splines or outer splines


or would it just be whats easier

and when you lower the front
do you only mess with the lower arm
or both


AND does anyone have a video for a swing axle
or are they bout the same
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cugir
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sharkskinman wrote:
so from original stance of a fastback
would you go 3 in front and 2 in back
and is the preferance of either inner splines or outer splines


or would it just be whats easier

and when you lower the front
do you only mess with the lower arm
or both


AND does anyone have a video for a swing axle
or are they bout the same



3 in front and 2 in back is doable with stock wheels, not sure about stock tires though. 3-2 would also sit higher in front than the back so you might be better dropping 1 and a third in the rear so the car is level.

Plan on readjusting the height a couple times at least to get it right. It's so much easier the fourth time.


As for inner VS outer... in the rear it should be easy to adjust either once the springplate is off unless they are rusted somehow. Choose the one that gets closer to your destination.

The front is different as you need to loosen one bolt for inner adjustments and a different bolt for outer adjustments.
The outer spline front allen bolt can be easy to strip making the inner splines a safer choice in the front. Mine was stripped and chewed up from vice grips and it still wouldn't come off, even with a torch and PB Blaster.
I took it to my mechanic who used this and got it off in 15 seconds. Shocked
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200263374_200263374
Irwin Bolt-Grip Extractors/Expanders 5-Pc. Set



When lowering the front is is only necessary to remove the lower control arm. The 30mm nut is the safest choice there.

A swing video would look just like the IRS one 'cept you wouldn't have the CV removal and only 3 bolts holding the axle to the springplate (I think). It looks like you would need to jack the axle up or wire it up when working on the springplate so it doesnt bend too far down.
I've never even seen a swing T3 and I'm confident I could do it after doing the IRS. Just check the IRS video and the swing sticky posted above and go for it.


Last edited by cugir on Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jackhammer
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:55 am    Post subject: video Reply with quote

That video rocks, it is exactly what i needed. I was messing with the front the other day and was not sure if i was going to attempt but i am now. Thanks
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mufins13
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if i posted pics of my car could you tell me if its the inner or outer spline that i need to move or what combination to do?
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Mike Fisher
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is strictly a "trial & error" sort of project. The first time is scary (rear!), but "piece of cake" the second time.
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cugir
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posting a pic of the car would give us a an idea.

It would also be good if you measured the height at each wheel from the ground to the top of the chrome trim or maybe to the lip of the fender if you dont have the chrome trim.

You will probably still need to do it more than once to get it perfectly level, even with the advice.
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