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Auto/power door locks are running amok
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danocox
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:52 am    Post subject: Auto/power door locks are running amok Reply with quote

o.k. when i go unlock my door on my 90 van it unlocks and then locks again and the only way to get it to stop is by quickly opening the door and unocking it manually from the other side. and then it all stops. sometimes it will also lock at random when driving. help would be appreciated thanks
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RCB
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was at my mechanics a few weeks ago and in drives a young couple in a beautiful Westy. After a brief chat with John, the couple leaves on foot.
I was admiring their Westy from afar and since my oil change was just about over with I decided to mosey on over to check out their ride.
As I got closer I began to hear this clicking sound..over and over and over.
Turns out the electronic door locks are on the fritz and all of them in unison are opening and then locking and opening and then locking.
By the time my oil change was done the battery had just about run itself down to nothing.

I got a chuckle out of it and the customer got a new electric lock.
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Dogpilot
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are a simple system. The master units on the front doors, especially the drivers one can get corrosion or out of adjustment and hit that fun special point where it is almost in either position. There are some sliding adjusters on the rod to the lock. You have to remove the door panels to get to them. Also, it can be our old friend corrosion internally to the unit, which can be opened and cleaned. The worst is chafing on the wires in the rubber tube in the door jamb. Good luck there. Here is how the system works:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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86 Syncro Westy AKA "The Bughunter"
98 Disco I
08 Range Rover SC
08 VW Rabbit S
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Steelhead
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:25 pm    Post subject: I have a similar issue - Reply with quote

Hijacking. I have a similar issue. Advice needed from someone who really gets these circuits.

I've taken apart and cleaned both motors/units. Here's whats happening:
1. locking and unlocking the passenger door works properly - All doors lock and and unlock the way they are supposed to when operating from the pasenger side.
2. When locking from the driver's side, the lock plunger goes down, activities the rear doors, but not the passenger door, and then automatically pops back up (thus unlocking all doors).
3. If I lock all doors using the passenger door, and then try to unlock the driver's door the reverse of the above happens ---- it unlocks momentarily (including the rear doors, but not the passenger door) and then relocks all automatically.

Its like the driver's door is getting an inverse signal from the passenger door? I'm thinking it may have something to do with the big drive gear (detailed above) being out of sync on one of the doors. Any auto door lock wizards able to follow/diagnose this?

thanks, Duncan
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Dogpilot
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duncan, take the drivers side lock actuator out, but plug it in the circuit. You can push and pull on the plunger and see what happens. If it does it when it is out, then the internals are suspect. If it does not do it when out, then it is the geometry of the liknage not allowing the actuator to make its full throw, an obstruction or some other external issue.
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Geology with a Syncro rocks!
86 Syncro Westy AKA "The Bughunter"
98 Disco I
08 Range Rover SC
08 VW Rabbit S
1951 O-1G
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danocox
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry I never actually responded to my own post. should follow up on all my problems, sorry. the problem I found and sounds alot like yours if not the exact same thing. the problem was that I tracked the "locking wire" down and it had corroded and had lost conection where the door hinges were. as I remember the locking wire was yellow and the unlocking one was white but that could be different from yours.

the best way to find out is to get some alligator jumps and hook one end up to power underneath the dash. just find a powered circut and then use a neddle to poke the wire in several different places. once it does someting then you know where to cut the wire. make sure you replace or seal and holes you make in the wire insualtion because you will be back doing the same thing right over again.

sorry for writing so much but, just wanted to be clear.
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Steelhead
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys. After much fiddling its fixed! In order to isolate the problem I switched them from one door to the other, and the problem moved. This indicated that it was one unit in particular and not the door wiring (relief).

It turned out that the big gear in one of the units was fused/rusted on the its post (not spinning well...the whole post was turning). This prevented any juice from getting to the motor -- causing it not to lock (and messed up the signal back to the other unit).

There are also some little springs in there that had rusted out and were screwing up the contact points. Cleaned it all up, mcgyver'd some new tiny springs, and its back in action. I sealed the units up with some liquid rubber so that it won't be a problem again 'til next year (haha).

Intense little electro-mechanical puzzle.
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John Sullivan
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was the one originally on the passenger side that was bad, right?
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Steelhead
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Sullivan wrote:
It was the one originally on the passenger side that was bad, right?


yep, you got it. I finally figured it out when I realized I could only hear the motor working on the driver's side unit, and then I took the passenger side motor out and bench tested it (and it worked by itself, but not in the actuator housing).

The gory detail: The compounding confusion was a result of first fabbing new springs for the plunger contacts, which ended up being a bit too stiff (but hard to know at the time). Then the main gear spindle, which had apparently worked sporadically in its fused state (by rotating both gear and spindle together, instead of gear rotating on spindle), in combination with the too stiff springs, began to bind and lock up the entire system.

Sensitive little mechanisms. Hard to imagine they last as long as they do. To anyone reading this who has similar door lock problems, don't let these diagrams scare you, just take one apart.

Key things to know:
- the motor screw always goes one direction and it's down (threads winding towards the motor).
- Consider bench testing the motor by itself.
- make sure both gears slide easily on the spindles.
- check the little springs that press the contact bar on the plunger.
- Don't get too hung up trying to figure out where to start the big gear when reassembling - it doesn't matter, it just goes around and around counter clock-wise (lock, unlock, lock, unlock, etc).
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aviatorjames
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've got an intermittent connection somewhere.
My system was also acting goofy for a while too...
...lock the door and they would simply unlock.
...sometimes?!?!

After getting into the wiring diagram, I was able to figure it out.
Traced it to an intermittent open circuit on the passenger side.
A broken wire in the bundle between the door and the door frame.

If you need some specific help, or a copy of the wiring diagram,
I'll be happy to send it to you.

james

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mcr314
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Auto/power door locks are running amok Reply with quote

I was reading this thread trying to understand the pinout of the sliding door.
My Bentley confirmed Brown, Yellow/White, but not the actual order of the pins.

From top to bottom it seems to be:
UNLOCK
LOCK
N/C
GND

Here is my video of my "fix". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W__D582YdeA
Our power lock system was disabled by the guy we bought from. I haven't really missed it, although the trunk lock would get physically get jammed until I disconnected the motor.
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Vantropy
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Auto/power door locks are running amok Reply with quote

I had much the same problem as Duncan (Steelhead) with the passenger side working fine and the driver's side immediately cancelling. Mine also turned out to be a problem with the passenger actuator. The rubber boot had torn and water was getting in, causing internal corrosion. Opened it up, cleaned everything, now it works fine.

It's counterintuitive, but the reason why is that the actuators can either work manually or through electric signal. So in this case, the manual activation of our passenger actuators sent a signal to the driver's side to follow along. But the driver's side electric signal was not activating the passenger side lock, so the passenger side would still be "transmitting" the opposite signal that would reverse the driver's side immediately.

I thought GoWesty's "Power Door Locks 101" (https://www.gowesty.com/tech-article-details.php?id=46) was confusing, but now that I've tried to write it, I can see there's no other way. It's just confusing. Gowesty addresses what happens when an actuator is broken, and what causes the "poltergeist" open & close & open & close behavior, but they don't address this problem that Duncan & I had, which is when the actuator has a contact problem (or a stuck gear problem) but the wiring is intact.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Duncan mentions that it doesn't matter where you put the big gear when assembling, but I'm here to tell you there is one place not to put it, which is captive inside that triangle with the red X on the photo. The position in the photo is a safe place to start (the peg on the gear does not appear in the Bentley diagrams).

As far as diagnostic tests go:
-I checked wire continuity from actuator plug to the white plastic T4 plug behind fuse panel by clipping an alligator clamp wire jumper to each pin of the plug and then to a multimeter. This plug has a red,white,yellow,and brown wire into it (same as at actuator).
-The actuators can be checked with a multimeter for continuity: they will show continuity from red to the yellow wire when the plunger is down (locked) and continuity at the white wire when plunger is up (unlocked).
-The actuators can also be checked electrically for function. I did this in the van by connecting three alligator-clip jumpers, one from battery positive to red wire terminal, one from battery negative to brown wire (ground) terminal and the third from battery positive to both yellow and white terminal which will cause the actuator to lock and then unlock. Of course, be careful with those positive wires. They will spark on the body around the battery. I should really advise this to be done on a bench out of the van.

I suspect that my problem was corrosion on the ground circuit. If you want to see a creative solution to a very corroded ground problem, check out Thomas Exovcds' video that also shows most of the dissasembly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKbo7zAyN_M

If you don't have this model that simply unplugs at the actuator: you do not need to remove that riveted-in bracket to get it out. The plug will just barely push through that gap if you turn it the narrowest way and find the right spot (up high worked well for me).

If there is water inside your actuator as there was in mine, this is the perfect application of WD-40 as a Water Dispersant on the motor and around the contacts. Clean every contact, coat with a fine layer of dielectric grease, grease gears, reassemble. I put electrical tape over the seams. Others have used liquid rubber sealants or similar.

When I was done, I wrapped tape around the actuator plunger rod to make a little cone that would divert dripping water away from the rubber seal.

One more tip: before putting all the handles and trim back on, if you have them, make sure the power windows, mirrors, and speakers work after putting the panels back on!

Oh, one last thing: as you're working away on the doors open and get everything back together you might be wondering why the lock won't close manually, and seems stuck open. It's easy to forget that the passenger lock won't manually close if the door is open, so you'll have to close the door to test.

Hope this helps someone out there! Good luck.
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Vantropy
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Auto/power door locks are running amok Reply with quote

Follow up:
My rebuild of the power lock actuator did not last long. I finally admitted defeat and bought a new actuator. The available actuators are Eurovan actuators, and don’t come with the plug to attach to the Vanagon. So you can either cut the Van wiring, attach spade connectors and then attach them to the pins on the new actuator, or get the pigtail adapter that converts to a Vanagon plug.
After installing the new actuator, I still had problems. The locks would lock together, but I still had unlock cancelling, returning to the locked state. So frustrating!
I tore everything apart and rechecked all my wire continuities (it helps to have alligator clip leads and a multimeter with an audible continuity: I have one that I like from iFixit for about $30-35). Also: a diagnostic point here: when checking the wire continuities, open and close the door a few times to see if the connection falls off anywhere (a wire may only be intermittently severed).

I noticed that some of the wires in the plugs were loose. The retaining pins on the terminals were flattened & can be removed and bent back to lock into the plug housing (see photo with arrow at retaining pins):
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

This is a great time to use dielectric grease on these connectors as it gets pretty wet inside the door (which is why the actuators have drains).

Finally, I unplugged the harness on the new actuator and realized that it may have been on upside down (either the person who attached the pigtail didn’t do it right or I switched it when inspecting the new part). The brown ground wire goes down. I’m pretty sure this was the culprit: put it all together and locks work great now.
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