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stang68001
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007
Posts: 24
Location: KIRKLAND, WA
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 Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:30 am Post subject: tail light conversion... from '70-71 to 60's style |
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| So I seem to recall seeing a conversion that somebody did recently, but now that i am looking for it, i can't find anything! Has anybody seen this done? I am intending to complete an all original ground up resto... but man do i hate those huge lights and signals. Any suggestions? Pictures of what needs to be done would be awesome. Also, is it true i can get rid of the turn signals if i use a euro-style setup? |
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Gary
Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002
Posts: 17069
Location: 127.0.0.1
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:35 am Post subject: |
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In order to convert to earlier tail lights, you're going to need sheet metal from a donor car, or a bodyman with excellent sheet metal fabrication skills. Since the 70/71 are not very prevalent, why not sell the vehicle to someone who would appreciate it and get yourself an older car. Probably cheaper in the long run.
_________________
West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943) |
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58lolight
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2006
Posts: 781
Location: Ct
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:51 am Post subject: |
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I just sold some rear taillight clips to someone doing the same thing. His 71 vert was in the shop having some body work done anyway so that was added to the to do list. Make sure you get enough of the clip to compensate for the difference at the top of the rear quarter above the light housing. I do agree with Icy that that selling your car and getting an earlier car is easier that altering your car. The money spent altering your car can be better spent improving the earlier one you desire. Good luck with what ever you do.
Rich |
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jason_hamilton
Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2003
Posts: 1125
Location: Abbotsford, BC
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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If you are interested in grafting early model tail light sections in, I have a good pair cut out of a '69.
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Jason Hamilton
1969 Karmann Ghia coupe
@MiddleAgedHoon |
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stang68001
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007
Posts: 24
Location: KIRKLAND, WA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you guys for the input, thats kind of what i figured, I had hoped maybe there was an easy answer, IE a kit... so much for hoping. I would go for an earlier car, but I'm already pretty far into a ground up on the one I've got, and it was a screaming deal for a vert... and I'm a cheap bastard, so i just can't let it go!!!
- Jason, If you have sections, please send me a picture and a price... so i can ponder. |
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ripreston
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2006
Posts: 147
Location: U.K. to L.A.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| stang68001 wrote: |
| ...but man do I hate those huge lights and signals. |
I don't understand why some people consider the '70>'71 rear lenses to be so unsightly.
Here are pix of my '71 and my '69:
I agree that the 60s lenses have a bit more character, but I think the early 70s taillights also suit the car's design quite well. It seems like it would require an awful amount of time, money, and effort to create a "period incorrect" Ghia by grafting in earlier lenses. It might suit your taste to do so, but I think it would ultimately detract from the car's re-sale value. There are far too many modified and molested Ghias out there already, just leave your car be and enjoy it as it is. Or, as others have suggested, sell the car you currently have and buy an earlier model. It's our duty to "protect and preserve" these vintage beauties, not to cut them up just to suit our fancy. |
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TC/TeamEvil
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 1769
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Gary
Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002
Posts: 17069
Location: 127.0.0.1
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:28 am Post subject: |
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I prefer the larger tail lights because most people in traffic can't see/don't pay attention to the smaller tail lights. I honestly would be very hesitant to drive a lowlight, with those coffin tail lamps, in regular traffic.
_________________
West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943) |
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ripreston
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2006
Posts: 147
Location: U.K. to L.A.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| TC/TeamEvil wrote: |
Here's a pic or two of a roughed in hammer-welded pair of '69 rear light buckets on my '74. I did the dreaded coupe-to-cabrio conversion at the
same time using a '69 for all of the factory inner bulkheads and reinforcements, plus the tail light buckets and windshield header. |
Well Team Evil, you've certainly lived up to your username and have apparently followed the teachings of Aleister Crowley - "Do what thou wilt". Sacrilege I say!   |
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theghiagirl
Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2004
Posts: 548
Location: Near Portland, OR
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| ripreston wrote: |
| stang68001 wrote: |
| ...but man do I hate those huge lights and signals. |
I don't understand why some people consider the '70>'71 rear lenses to be so unsightly.
Here are pix of my '71 and my '69:
I agree that the 60s lenses have a bit more character, but I think the early 70s taillights also suit the car's design quite well. It seems like it would require an awful amount of time, money, and effort to create a "period incorrect" Ghia by grafting in earlier lenses. It might suit your taste to do so, but I think it would ultimately detract from the car's re-sale value. There are far too many modified and molested Ghias out there already, just leave your car be and enjoy it as it is. Or, as others have suggested, sell the car you currently have and buy an earlier model. It's our duty to "protect and preserve" these vintage beauties, not to cut them up just to suit our fancy. |
AMEN  |
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TC/TeamEvil
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 1769
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stang68001
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007
Posts: 24
Location: KIRKLAND, WA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, so I am a bit afraid of team evil, and think i am going away from the "dark side" and will stick with the stock lights. ripreston's '71 looks pretty classy, was there a stock configuration rear bumper w/o towelbars and no lower reflectors?? I have also considered shaving the rear reflector to clean up the rear a bit.
-- every car should have a nice ass. |
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58lolight
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2006
Posts: 781
Location: Ct
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| I think the 70-71 rear lights follow the rear quarter contour much better. |
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myb356
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2004
Posts: 408
Location: bay area california
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| To do the 70-71 to 60-69 t-light conversion you only need the top 2/3 of the earlier sheetmetal around the t-light. The bottom 1/3 is the same. You can actually leave the 70-71 flange and just weld the "new" section above it. In theory you could even convert back to the bigger t-lights without even a repaint...because the rubber would cover where you cut the extensions off. Spoken from experience. |
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ripreston
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2006
Posts: 147
Location: U.K. to L.A.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| stang68001 wrote: |
| Ok, so I am a bit afraid of team evil, and think i am going away from the "dark side" and will stick with the stock lights. ripreston's '71 looks pretty classy, was there a stock configuration rear bumper w/o towelbars and no lower reflectors?? I have also considered shaving the rear reflector to clean up the rear a bit. Every car should have a nice ass. |
I'm happy to hear that you like the look of my '71 Ghia's rear end. I'm sure she'll be flattered. 
Where the bumpers are concerned: European market Ghias came equipped with what we now refer to as "Euro bumpers" - although European customers could order their cars with the American-style bumpers (with the taller overriders and bumper bows/"towel bars") if they preferred. My '71 is equipped with the Euro bumpers because it was originally sold/purchased in Germany, but you can order the same bumpers from KGP&R. As for the rear reflectors, simply don't re-install them after you've repainted your car. (They were never a particularly appealing addition to the Ghia in my opinion, and most Ghia purists will overlook your leaving them off.) Good luck with your restoration - by deciding to stick with the stock lenses you're staying true to the definition of the word restoration. And, you'll be much happier for it when all is said and done. |
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grelland
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2006
Posts: 540
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:11 am Post subject: |
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I am doing this.
The car is a '62, but the body was swapped to a '71 some time in its long and painful life, so I am "converting" the body to look like a '62. In Norway, good bodies (I am talking about Ghias, now) are hard to find, so I ended up building on the one I had. Looking back, that was probably not the best solution, as the amount of work due to rust has been/is immense..
But back to the rear lights.
As mentionned, I sourced the rear part of the fenders from an early 60's Ghia in Germany, and cut away the rearmost part of the '71 fender. Then carefully measuring everything, I placed the "old style" part oustside the fender, mounted it with self-tapping screws like this:
Then I cut through both pieces of metal using an air saw, to get an as narrow gap as possible:
Then the last picture show the part spot welded in place (I use butt-welding for this)
Then I welded the entire thing up, and some panel beating remains before the shape is as it should be.
This is not an overly difficult task, I have no metal-working knowledge at all, but must admit it is a bit scary to cut up your car... The other side is easier..
Good luck
Roy |
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TC/TeamEvil
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 1769
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Rome
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 10565
Location: Pearl River, NY
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:49 am Post subject: |
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Hi TC, Roland from NY here. Glad you're up and around on a Forum. 
Ripreston, did your Euro-spec Ghia still have its original rear reflectors? Those are different than US-spec. The US-spec had a rectangular rear-facing reflector dictated in overall size by the new SAE gov't lighting regulation. '70 Beetles had a stand-alone reflector of about the same size attached to a 'pedestal" on each side of the rear bumper to conform to the regulations. Euro GHIAS had a ROUND rear reflector, very similar to, if not the same ones as on late '60's Type 3s, though the reflector housing did not extend as far forward as that on the T3.
Removing "any" of the rear reflectors from the '70/'71 Ghia does "unclutter" the rear, though it is then no longer "factory" original. |
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ripreston
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2006
Posts: 147
Location: U.K. to L.A.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Rome wrote: |
| Ripreston, did your Euro-spec Ghia still have its original rear reflectors? |
No, I don't have the original reflectors. My '71 was previously Scott Dempster's personal car in the early '90s, and before that it belonged to a member of the U.S. Air Force. The latter brought it to the States when he returned from being stationed in Germany in the '70s. It eventually ended up at Vandenberg Air Force base here in California and Scott purchased it. (I hope I've got that right - Scott will correct me if I'm wrong.) In any case, by the time I acquired the car (in 1996) it had already been repainted at some point and the reflectors had been removed. I eventually did a complete ground up restoration to the car between 1999 and 2001, and although I completely agree with your belief that leaving the reflectors off makes the car factory unoriginal, I draw the line where the early 70s reflectors are concerned - U.S. or European. (Even if I'd had the original reflectors I wouldn't have re-installed them during my restoration.) I don't mind the late '60s reflectors so much (see the picture of my '69 above), but the '70s reflectors are just overkill and make the back end look too busy in my opinion. |
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ripreston
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2006
Posts: 147
Location: U.K. to L.A.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| TC/TeamEvil wrote: |
The Pre-A 356 in front of it has '52 Buick tail lights fitted horizontally, and a split rear window from a '38:
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Oh my lord, I didn't spot this the last time I read this thread. How could you do that to a Pre-A 356? Team Evil, you truly are pure evil - perhaps even the Devil himself. This has all the markings of his handiwork. |
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