Question for joescoolcustoms............ bending tube.

[Glasser]

I used the search engine and found this thread. Wasn't sure if I should dig up the old thread or do it this way.

Joe, you said you used 1 5/8 inch, 0.134 wall, DOM. What sized die shoe was it that you used.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=230317&highlight=benders

My neighbor needs to build a roll cage for a drag beetle and I need to build my cage for my FG car. I want to make your jig but wondered about the shoe size.
The tube has to fit "tight" in the shoe before bending correct.

[Dale M.]

If you don't want to go a manufactured tubing bender...

Maybe you can at least try and do it rigt by building a low cost one....

http://www.blindchickenracing.com/Tools/Tube%20Bender/Tubingbender.htm

By the way.... Throw HF tubing kinker away...... You will ruin more tubing than the cost of a decent bender....

http://www.jd2.com/m3b.htm

Incidentally die size is same dimension as tubing.... 1-5/8 tubing, requires a "1-5/8" die....

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[Mr Bs Bug N Buggy]

[Glasser]

If I could find one locally for that price I would have it at home by now. I also have the border to contend with duty, brokerage fees, shipping as mentioned etc .We have a pipe bender already so I want to utilize it.

The reason I am questioning the shoe size is.....
If I have this correct (and I'm not sure that I do) pipe is measured OD tube is measure ID. SO a die shoe on a Pipe bender would be 1.625"
Would a shoe for a Tube bender be 1.625+ wall thickness twice .134. In Joe's case 1.893 . I know the shoe is going to say 1.625 but what does it actually measure at? Do I have this right?

I'm thinking we need a Tube shoe and will not be able to use the Pipe shoe. The bends we have tried has egg shaped the pipe slightly because the shoe was to wide. So it is on the way of kinking. If Joe's modifications will stop this I'm all set.
Just need some clarification.

[Mr Bs Bug N Buggy]

[aquamanx]

Check out this thread also http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2578535&highlight=#2578535

I got a pro tools bender for 635.oo shipped to my door, it works great!
Here's a pic of the bender mounted to my shop driveway.

[Dale M.]

[Mr Bs Bug N Buggy]

[Dale M.]

[Mr Bs Bug N Buggy]

Dale, I think we are on two different pages here.....Glasser was asking Joe a question about his system, funny enough, I have been in contact with him over PM's about it also, and have done a ton of research on the net, which will lead you to allot of 4x4 forums about the HF bender.

You then say....

[aquamanx]

Not 150 but 175 will get ya a 1.5" die here's the link http://www.xtremecrawlers.com/catalog/protools-tube-dies-c-1_7_23.html

That cage looks damn good to me

and for a bender that is only 100 bucks, I guess it maybe worth a try.

[joescoolcustoms]

Sorry about being slow to reply, but Thanksgiving was yesterday and I eat until I cannot breathe, then pass out, wake up eat again until I cannot breathe, reapeat as neccessay. I have finally woke up enough to sit upright to read and look at the Samba.

So, if my wife was home from work yet she would back me up on this next statement. I am one cheap SOB. If I can use what I have to perform quality work with, I will not purchase anything more, (unless some one has a good deal on a forged 86 mm stoke crank, 94 mm wiseco pistons, Jaycee cylinders and some H-Beam 5.6 chevy journal rods, wait, that is another thread). Please do not mistake my cheapness with the lack of a quest of quality product or workmanship.

I was just a couple mouse clicks from buying a $ 1328.00 bending setup with the dies I thought I may use, when I looked around and saw that POS HF Kinker I mounted to a small stand that produces the most beautiful kinked pipe bends. Being a tinkerier that I am, (cheap too), I just could not get past the fact that HF did have some good shoes but just not a good way of holding the pipe/tube to keep it from rising in the middle to make a bend. I had already purchased my Drag Car 1 5/8 inch DOM tubing and needed some way to bend it for what I needed to modify on my tube chassis to make it a ladder bar coil over setup, (hence the almost $ 1328 purchase). After looking at the fitment on the HF 1 1/4 shoe, (it is the 1 1/4 shoe that fits the 1 5/8 tubing very well), I came up with a quick idea of making something that would not only hold the middle of the bend fromrising and kinking, (could be done with just a simple strap) but also keep the tube from flattening at the bend apex.

The pictures show and thread describes what I did to make it happen. I grabbed a leftover peice of leaf spring form a jeep project long gone, heated it red hot, and bent it almost into a circle around the 1 5/8 tube. Cut a 180 degree section out of it and welded a strap to each side of the half moon spring section. Drilled a hole through the 1 1/4 shoe, inserted the bolt through the newly built shoe and the die was complete. I painted it black so as to identify it as a set because if it worked, I would make more shoes for some other common used sizes and then paint them a differant color as well.

This first picture is the wasted 1 5/8 tubing I had left over form the buggy cage I have built, (minus one 11 inch section I welded a bearing race to to use as a jig to press pinion bearings on a 12 bolt chevy rear end, loaned it to a friend this weekend). I started out with 2 joints of 1 5/8 tubing, (21 foot per joint).

This second picture is of the 1 5/8 shoe installed onto the longest peice I have left. You can notice the tight fitment of the original HF shoe and my bastard adaptation.

The question or statement came up about how do you check your angle bent or do you waste time bending, checking, re bending, checking. The nice benders come with angle gauges to tell you where you are in the bend. Well remember the Cheap SOB I am? Here is a picture of my angle gauge installed on the HF Kinker.

The angle gauge is two angle finders, (from HF at about $ 12 each I think, I already had one to set pinion angle on V8 drag cars). Once the slack is taken out of the HF Kinker, you zero your gauges, then bend each guage to half the bend needed. If I needed a 84 degree angle, (Second hoop, top bend on buggy cage), then each gauge should read 42 degrees. You really only need on gauge because the HF Kinker does a good job of evenly bending the angle on each side.

Now the question of quality of bend. Look at my bends in the picture. No inside kinks. No outside kinks. No flattening of the bend in the apex. No ruined tubing, (Cheap remember, I will not bend unless I am sure of the angle and shape I need. Steel is expensive and I do not wish to waste money buying tubing I do not need).

I have looked at bends made by the JD squared bender and others, they do not look as good as mine. Both will be just as strong, (DO NOT TAKE THIS AS A SLAM ON THE JD MODEL) and perform the same stressed function when put to the test.

The question about time. I built the roll cage complete in one Saturday. I did know what I wanted before ever turning the lights on the the garage, but one Saturday using a untried bender. It takes longer to pump the jack handle to the height needed to make the angle bend needed than it does to install the bending shoe, (5 seconds) or remove the shoe once complete, (30 seconds).

I am not implying, stating, recommending, selling, pushing, representing in any way the HF Kinker as a perfect bender that everyone should own. I am just one person that is cost concious and likes being able to use what I have bought and I have the abality to fabricate, weld, modify, change, machine just about anything to do something else with. I will stand my chage up to any NHRA, IHRA, IMCA, SCCA inspection based on quality of my workmanship, (I know that this cage would not pass inspection for design at certian speeds for racing, but I did not intend it to be. My drag car will pass the inspection once I start on it, just need more 1 5/8 tubing now.)
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone

[joescoolcustoms]

And for the record, I did not make the rear bumper. It is a bugpack model that I modified to fit my lights, chassis and body.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone

[ManxBug]

Glasser if you have issues with your pipe bender then Gregg Distributors should have a tube bender for a good price. http://www.greggdistributors.ca/calgary.htm

[Glasser]

First THANK YOU ALL for the feedback. What would we do with out the web, this great site and awesome members.

Mr Bs Bug N Buggy, Thank you for your input. Yes that is my thread on the chassis. Your quote

[joescoolcustoms]

A couple general comments about bending tubing.

The tubing has a slight memory. When bending the tubing, it will spring back slightly once the bending pressure is released. On my HF Kinker, I had to go over my desired bend angle about 3 to 4 degrees (1 1/2 degree per side) and when pressure was released, it sprang back to my desired angle.

It is so easy to miss-bend a peice of tubing. I do not mean kinking the bend. I mean bending in the wrong location, bending the wrong direction, not have enough tubing left and one leg ends up short after the bend. So, when someone states they wasted a lot of tubing, don't always blame the bender, it may be the bender operator. If your are doing this once or just as a hobby, slow down just a little, draw what you want, (on the garage floor if needed), don't measure twice, measure five times., but be sure what bend you are making, where you are making it on the tube so you don't waste money.

Before ordering tubing, measure how much you will need. I have about 32 feet of tubing in that little buggy cage. 12 foot for front hoop, 11 foot for rear hoop... get the idea. (For me to get DOM tubing, I have to order 2 weeks in advance, minimum of $ 200 order and I have to pick up at their wharehouse location, hard at 21 foot joints.)

Fish-mouthing joints. Another POS from HF, is a cheap version of the old "Joint Jigger". I know this adds to the construction cost, but the quality of build it helps acheive is more than worth the money. I think I paid about $ 49 for mine from HF. I have used it on 4 cages now, and it still works well, (had to shim the tube holder to center it under the hole saw).

Now if you cannot weld very well, cannot or do not know exactly what you want in a cage, don't have some basic fab tools, (welder, grinder, way to cut tubing, personal protective equipment, know a little about geometry) it may be best to get someone to do this for you. I am not trying to discurage anyone, but for your and your family's safety, you do not want to get smacked upside the head with a peice of stray tubing while driving or offroading.

But if you can make a boxed frame, install your own pan haves, narrow a beam, install adjusters in a beam, you most likely can fab your own cage.

Now start that winter cage project you have been talking about for the last two years!!!!
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone

[aquamanx]