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MrCarpy
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2020
Posts: 10
Location: Rigaud, QC, Canada
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 Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:35 am Post subject: Re: Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures) |
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| ZsZ wrote: |
The main problem is some brands are just boxing ones made somewhere unknown, then change supplier with time. Others who are manufacturing themself, change manufacturing plants with time.
And they have different suppliers/plants on different markets.
Like Lemforders were the best as they had the VW-Audi logo hand grinded and were made in Germany. Now they have no logo and are made in Turkey.
Meyle was good, then changed supplier, now it is crap.
The old OEM Lemforders lasted ~100k Kms, then I got Febi, lasted ~50k, Meyle ~2k, Now new Lemforders.
The spot weld did not penetrate into the bushing on the right side as the sleeve has some coating and made from some special steel recipe. Had welded in situ but they are still squeaking. |
Thanks for the clarification Zoltan 
So it would seem to still stick with Lemforder 1st or Febi 2nd ?
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1988 Vanagon GL Westfalia, Flash Silver |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6367
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:40 am Post subject: Re: Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures) |
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| MrCarpy wrote: |
| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
the only reason I went with stock style is to be able to grease them without touching the alignment.
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ok your greasing them using the Zerk fitting correct?
| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
They're all cheaply made anyway...
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It sadly seems so. Im on my second set in one year with very low millage. |
Correct.
It's been a plague for over 15 years now until Powerflex came up with better products. They did however moved from stainless outer sleeve in one piece into a 3 piece design: steel outer sleeve and stainless inner sleeve+ stainless washer. I prefer the old design.
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ZsZ
Samba Member
Joined: December 11, 2010
Posts: 1647
Location: Budapest Hungary, Europe
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:38 pm Post subject: Re: Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures) |
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| MrCarpy wrote: |
Thanks for the clarification Zoltan
So it would seem to still stick with Lemforder 1st or Febi 2nd ? |
Due to the welding problems I lean to Febi 1st - however I dunno if they changed someting in the last 5 or so years I bought them last time.
Maybe with the grease zerks put in they are both fine.
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Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008 |
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4806
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures) |
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doing UCA bushings along with BJs and TREs ( ) on my 87. these Elastmetall are what came out with a loud snap under pretty high press pressure, yes the weld was removed. no way they would move in my bench vise. bushings were still tight after 250k miles but squeaky.
Elastmetall 202345 is the PN. doing a little web search reveals that Elastmetall is 'ZF Boge Elastmetall' so these are Boge bushings. putting in the Powerflex bushings from T3.
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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ZsZ
Samba Member
Joined: December 11, 2010
Posts: 1647
Location: Budapest Hungary, Europe
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2023 11:48 pm Post subject: Re: Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures) |
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| DanHoug wrote: |
Elastmetall 202345 is the PN. doing a little web search reveals that Elastmetall is 'ZF Boge Elastmetall' so these are Boge bushings. |
BOGE is owned by ZF just like Lemforder. These were sold as the Lemforder bushings 10-15 years ago (see the small triangle logo) just the VW-Audi logo was groud off by hand.
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Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008 |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6367
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures) |
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Yes, it's Lemfoerder, the VW manufacturing code is actually on it: LME.
Boge would be BSO. Early vans had them, with a metal ring. Bomber! I took off a set from an 83 aircooled that I actually saved for the Syncro next time 
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4806
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2023 4:54 am Post subject: Re: Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures) |
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the Powerflex bushings are in on the passenger side, and man, does that upper control arm ever move smoothly now. it'll be interesting to see if there's a ride difference with that being able to move up and down so easily.
wanting to forestall rust and an immovable cam washer for this winter driver van, i slathered Bushing Snot on the cam washer, new bolt, and the frame socket the cam washer goes into. after tightening the nut "Guut-n-Tite" with a 3/8 ratchet i could still move the entire bolt and cams with a breaker bar on the Allen socket head. dang. did the Snot lube things too much? then i got out the torque wrench and found i was WAY low on torque and think i hadn't compressed the purple poly bushing nose that sticks out beyond the metal sleeve. torqued it to spec and the bolt head locked up tight with no movement even with a 1/2" breaker bar.
dunno what the Bushing Snot is but man, i don't think it is washing out soon. doesn't wipe off with a rag, GoJo doesn't dissolve it well, Windex doesn't touch it, brake cleaner got it off. some garage hilarity ensued when i picked up a thin paper napkin and couldn't get it off with the Snot on both gloved hands. is it a mix of Teflon and silicone grease?
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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revolution337
Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2009
Posts: 372
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2023 5:14 am Post subject: Re: Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures) |
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| DanHoug wrote: |
| dunno what the Bushing Snot is but man, i don't think it is washing out soon. doesn't wipe off with a rag, GoJo doesn't dissolve it well, Windex doesn't touch it, brake cleaner got it off. some garage hilarity ensued when i picked up a thin paper napkin and couldn't get it off with the Snot on both gloved hands. is it a mix of Teflon and silicone grease? |
I had a similar experience with the stuff. I must have went through and entire box of nitrile gloves during my front end rebuild. God forbid you get the stuff on your tools, what a nightmare to clean off. Brake clean was the only thing that seemed to have any effect on it.
Well over a year has passed since my rebuild, and the excess "bushing snot" that oozed out during bushing replacement is still in place, doesn't seem to have dripped off or rinsed at all. I swear this stuff is made with witchcraft.
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1982 Westfalia AEB 1.8t
2017 VW Golf Sportwagen
2001 Audi A4 4.2 V8 swapped
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-Mark |
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do.dah
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 447
Location: Washington
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2023 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures) |
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As I as doing mine, Chris recommended that stuff, and I said "SURE".
I started to put that shit on EVERYTHING that I wanted to stay lubed.
When I ran out, called Chris and asked if he had anymore, and he was mystified how I could've gone thru so much on just a bushing job. I told him I put that shit on a whole lot more than the bushings. He chuckled.. |
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calo1956
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2011
Posts: 704
Location: long Island new york
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2023 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures) |
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I tacked mine, because thats how they were from the factory, it sucks that yours are failing so quickly. I did mine about 7 yrs ago, and I guess I lucked out because mine are fine so far
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Enjoy the ride....
72 bug
80 westfalia |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6367
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2023 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures) |
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| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
No it's lack of greasing inside.
I added zerk fittings.
People have had good success with them in France on the forum.
Notice how the grease shot out the front side of the bushing here on above picture, it wasn't built properly....
I installed Meyle bushings recently, not my preferred choice as I hate this brand but they were free.
Dimensionally similar to stock ones, I don't understand why I had a
13 to 14mm gap to solve with eccentric washers. My UCA are straight, parallel, well lined up. ( I actually had to straighten one a bit)
I'm puzzled by this but made it work with 1 eccentric washer on one side and 2 one the other. The chassis width is 153mm here, it's constant on every van. My gap was 165mm at the Syncro UCA which I find a lot but it matched a stock 2WD arm. |
Well, a year and half later, not a ton of miles, some offroad with this toy, I still have no play but today my daughter inspected the UCA's and she told me they looked wrong. I'm sure the failure is close....
I'll go back to PU , Whiteline this time until I can afford the beautiful billet parts from T3technique.
See how the nut appears off-centered?
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shagginwagon83
Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016
Posts: 3805
Location: VA/TN
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2023 7:59 am Post subject: Re: Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures) |
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If it makes you feel better in 2018 I invested in the BMS Billet UCA's and after my Baja trip (and years of average use) I had to spend $300 on a new set of heim joints. Ultimately there is a small nylon bushing inside those joint.
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Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6367
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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shagginwagon83
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Joined: February 07, 2016
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Location: VA/TN
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6367
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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Christopher Schimke
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5393
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2023 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures) |
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| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
I hope the T3TECHNIQUE ones are tougher 😲 |
Our joints are custom made specifically for us and run $45.99 each...if you ever need a replacement.
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"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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calsurf
Samba Member
Joined: June 28, 2022
Posts: 128
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2023 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures) |
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| DanHoug wrote: |
dunno what the Bushing Snot is but man, i don't think it is washing out soon. doesn't wipe off with a rag, GoJo doesn't dissolve it well, Windex doesn't touch it, brake cleaner got it off. some garage hilarity ensued when i picked up a thin paper napkin and couldn't get it off with the Snot on both gloved hands. is it a mix of Teflon and silicone grease? |
I found that plain WD40 works excellent in removing it. Great stuff both Snot and WD. |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6367
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2023 10:52 pm Post subject: Re: Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures) |
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| calsurf wrote: |
| DanHoug wrote: |
dunno what the Bushing Snot is but man, i don't think it is washing out soon. doesn't wipe off with a rag, GoJo doesn't dissolve it well, Windex doesn't touch it, brake cleaner got it off. some garage hilarity ensued when i picked up a thin paper napkin and couldn't get it off with the Snot on both gloved hands. is it a mix of Teflon and silicone grease? |
I found that plain WD40 works excellent in removing it. Great stuff both Snot and WD. |
Brake cleaner and ...rubbing alcohol work wonders!
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6367
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2023 10:53 pm Post subject: Re: Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures) |
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| Christopher Schimke wrote: |
| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
I hope the T3TECHNIQUE ones are tougher 😲 |
Our joints are custom made specifically for us and run $45.99 each...if you ever need a replacement. |
Thank you Chris!
now I need to cough up the money
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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ZsZ
Samba Member
Joined: December 11, 2010
Posts: 1647
Location: Budapest Hungary, Europe
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 5:35 am Post subject: Re: Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures) |
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Bought FEBI ones today.
It looks like they are not made in Germany any more. Different plastic ring and more rough surface. No info on where they are made.
But I can see why the Lemforders failed on me. These are taller by 1.5 mms
It seems like nowadays you need different thickness shims even on 2WD vans.
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Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008 |
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