advice on new paint job and replacing poptop seals

[snowblind]

Hi,

Just got a 86 westy. I have fair amount of car mechnical experience but hardly any body repair / painting which is what this vanagon needs! I am mostly looking for advice on how to approach the exterior work:

1) Completely re-doing the poptop (new canvas, new seals, and removing some mold; this is top priority.

2) Fixing some rust spots where the paint cracked

3) A complete paint job is also in the van's near future.

4) replace some exterior parts (door handles, bumpers, etc).

I was going to start right away with the poptop work but then I thought it might be better to clean everything, have it painted, and then install the new seals.

I have never had a vehicle painted before so I'm wondering how much prep work is required and what of this work is easy to do myself to avoid paying the paint shop to do. Should I just take the van to a paint shop and talk to them? I am pretty sure a fair amount of prep work needs to be done, especially removing some of the old paint and fixing the 'rust bubbles'... is it reasonable to have a shop do this work ?


Finally, I have read mostly all positive reviews of the GoWesty poptop seal kit and the BusDepot seal kit. I would rather not have to mess with glue (GoWesty), but I also dont want the seal to move around (if clips break or corrode, BusDepot). Any advice is appreciated.

Thank you,
brad

[90Doka_Guy]

A complete quality paint job including some body work, from start to finish will be VERY expensive. if you go this route be prepared to pay an arm and a leg. also, it might be hard to find a paint shop that is willing to paint the car completely. Body shops make most of their money on small dings and dents. If you are looking for a quality paint job, my advice would be to look around for shops that don't turn over many cars and have a specialization in older cars. Get to know the people that will be working on the car and make sure you think they will be doing good work.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=264769&highlight=paint+job
A thread of my paint job progress.
http://www.eden.rutgers.edu/~ckeane/VW%20Pictures/
more pictures of the job that was done


As for in terms of what you can do for prep;
My brother recently painted his 69 fasty completely by himself, and it looks better than the work i had done. He started from the begining, had it sandblasted, did all the bodywork, set up a paint booth and shot it. It took him four years to do, but it is one of the best paint jobs i have seen. He got all of his information through the internet and some books he bought. All for the cost of the paint gun, paint, body filler, and his time. It all depends on how much you can/are willing to do.

Personally, if i were to do it again, i would have done most of the prep work myself to save some moolah.

[snowblind]

Not sure I really want to pay an arm and a leg for a paint job.... how many dollars are we taking here? 1k? 10k? I certainly dont want to spend that much time or money on a paint job... I bought the van to use it. I could probably spend 3-4 days taking off all the exterior parts and might even have access to a sandblaster to make quick work of the old paint.... but in the end, the inside will still look a little worn compare to the shiny outside. I think what I really want is to have a shop fix the various patches of rush and then shoot the van.. if the paint isnt super smooth or shiny no big deal.... original color is gold, which now looks very faded and horrible. Just wondering what is really the minimal amount of prep work required... obviously removing decals/stripping and what else???

[rockfish]

I did my 89 Westy last summer. I did not install the new tent and seals until after painting.

An idea to consider - I found a body/paint shop that had done a fair share of work on late model corvettes - translated, they had experience working with fiberglass. They also did a nice job on the various dents, scratches, etc. on the metal portion of the Westy.

Definitely remove the old pop-top seals and luggage rack seal before painting.

I had the shop do all of the body work and then primer work. Before painting, I had a Line-X shop do the lower panels all the way around the bus. Then I took the bus back to the shop for painting.

The GoWesty pop-top/luggage seals don't need adhesive, but GoWesty does provide a tube w/ the seals - I used it (lightly) just for insurance.
_________________
89 Westy
GW 2.5 5-speed trans

"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts."
- John Wooden

[snowblind]

rockfish,

LineX of the body panels? LineX like the stuff that goes in the back of trucks? do you have any pics? and what was your motivation?

also, can you give me an idea of the cost, including some minor body work and primering? Did you use a shop in Palo Alto or maybe somewhere closer to me in the East Bay ?

thanks,
brad

[Steelhead]

[90Doka_Guy]

Mine cost me 5k. I cant tell you how much minimum prep work would be required, with a sandblaster i am sure you can do damn near all of it. After the paint job, if its not exactly up to par, its amazing what a buffer wheel and some compound can do. Hell, my uncle shot his bug in his driveway one Saturday and it looks pretty good. (Although, it was white) Do some searches on the internet about body work; its amazing how much information is out there.

As tikibus said in the above forum, do not forget about the undercarriage. Mine wasn't bad but it could be something that is easily overlooked. Rust there is as deadly, if not more deadly than on the body.

[bucko]

Body and paint is not cheap. Assuming your metal has absolutely no rust at all, the prep work for good paint adheision will still cost you around $3000.00. This is for a paint job you will make no excuses for.

I painted my own. It looks good, but I'm a novice at best, and the paint job shows that. Shiny and smooth, but there are spots where it was apparent I did it in a garage, without a proper inclosed booth (I had a couple of bugs land on the fresh paint when my son opened the garage during the painting!).

Got any bodywork that needs to be done? Add in more money. This is where the job really adds up. I don't believe in bondo, not even for a door ding. A good body shop will hammer it out, or use metal to replace a bad panel. Big bucks.

Check out your local paint shops. If the shop is clean and orgainized, talk price. If the shop is dirty, and unorganized, walk away.
_________________
Current VW drives: 1984 Westfalia

Past VW drives: 1967 Beetle, 1973 Beetle, 1977 Bus, 1971 Military Type 181

[Busdepot]

[j_dirge]

[rockfish]

snowblind,

My Westy is over at Fred's Garage (Redwood City) for installation of new 2WD springs (GoWesty) and big brakes (Van-Cafe) - so unfortunately I cannot post a picture just yet.

The lower panel coating was inspired by what GoWesty had done for some owners - take a look at this picture in an ad I found today:

http://www.gowesty.com/vehicle_details.php?id=895

Line-X is a sprayed-on bedliner. I had it done by Line-X of Santa Clara (they are very close to the San Jose airport).

http://www.linexofsantaclara.com/prodinfo.php?PHPSESSID=9a3740bc7954b7cf4a76ea88440dbbe2

The cost was $500. The website has plenty of technical information as to why a Line-X application is superior to other bedliner sprays. Mike (owner) told me that he probably under-charged me. So expect to pay more.

BTW - Line-X will tell you that they want to apply their product *before* you paint it. It's OK to get the body work and primer done first. But they do not want to apply to a new/second layer of paint.

Here is a poor quality (cell phone) photo of my Westy - after body work and primer, but before Line-X and paint. Note that pop-top is 100% primer gray in this photo (luggage rack inside vehicle). Also, just as much body work done on other side of bus. Due to all of the rock damage and pitting, the body shop sanded down the entire nose of the Westy and then primer.

The benefits of the Line-X application ... the lower panels are abused by road debris, chemicals, mud, etc. already - the coating will do a better job to standing up to the abuse. Another reason is that the panel seams at the bottom of the body panels are subject to easy rusting due to their position and constant abuse by road stuff and weather. It also looks pretty cool.

I had my body work and paint done at Quest Collision Center in Redwood City. I really shouldn't state the price I paid because I got it at way below retail ... I am friends with the guy who owns the property and the used car dealership on the same site. Let's just say I got a deal that was less than what j_dirge paid just for his Honda Civic door repair. Normally the job would have cost somewhere between $5K-8K

Interesting side note. Quest has a device that they created for the explicit use of stripping old paint etc. off of fiberglass panels. It is hand operated but it reminds me of the old plastic brushes car washes would use on the top and sides of your car.

OK - found two photos of current Westy - from camping at Carpinteria last August. Will post better ones later (wife will kill me if she finds out that she's in these photos!) ... Note that I opted to change the blue pop-top and luggage rack to "Pastel White". I've always like the 2-tone look and I thought by going to white we could help keep the interior a little cooler (plus the 3-window tent is great for cross-ventilation!).

_________________
89 Westy
GW 2.5 5-speed trans

"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts."
- John Wooden

[ckissick]

I don't know where in the Bay Area you are, but Autorella in Santa Cruz is painting my Westy right now. I haven't gotten it back yet, but it will cost about $7K. I had many dents, and lots of rust, with holes around the windshield and under the luggage rock. They're painting the top as well. I think it's a good price for the condition it was in.

Autorella is about 1 block down the road from Van Cafe, and Peter recommends them highly. There are always Westies there, so they know how to take them apart and put them back together again.

I was going to do the prep work to save money, but figured it wasn't worth my time. Talk to Rick at Autorella: 831-475-0400
_________________
Charlie
1950 Beetle
1983 Westfalia
1989 syncro Tristar
1966 Porsche 912
1989 Beck Spyder
2007 GTI Fahrenheit

[Wildthings]

Eighteen years ago I painted my Bay using 16 oz cans of Rustoleum spray paint. I washed the body well followed by a thorough wet sanding, and then multiple thins coats of primer and paint. Took me maybe a week from start to finish. I still got complements on the finish until I parked it several years ago. Cheap and easy to start with and when some dingbat scraped up one side years later I matched if up by using several cans of extra paint I had left over from the original project. It cost me all of 120+/- bucks to paint it way back when.

Maybe not for everyone, but I own my bus for transportation not for show.

[ranchero]

I used to frequent this site in the past when I was restoring my Ranchero. Used to be a great source of info.....Has a pretty active forum of professionals and DIYers

http://autobodystore.com/forum/index.php

As a point of reference, I'm in limbo on my Ranchero restoration, but I'm ready to lay down the basecoat. I spent just under $300 for top quality primer/sealer and sandable primers, and this was about 4 years ago. At that time I priced the base (color) and clear coats (material only) at about $700. Makes one wonder how Earl Scheib can make money on $300 paint jobs. Either Volume or low-quality paint I suspect.

Before I decided to do my paint and body myself, I got quotes from $2k-$5k for higher-end shops.
_________________
'90 Westy Syncro EJ25 (money pit #1)
'96 FZJ80 (cheap by comparison^^)
'13 Golf R. Daily driver.

[tsombrero1]

Wow, Keane and Rockfish your vans sure are purdy. Someday mine will be purdy too, but until then I'll keep playing whack-a-rust and spot-rattlecanning.

You should consider some of that 3M film on the front-- if you can manage to keep the bubbles out it doesn't show at all and it keeps the rocks off your paint.
_________________
Tennessee Sombrero

1988 Westy, Syncro-nated
2003 Aprilia Caponord (now with Jif)
Atari 2600
1970 Earthbound Humanoid

[j_dirge]