RagTop / Sunroof Replica Project

[weinerbug]

Here's my Project so far.
Using correct rails, rollers and replicated mechanicals, the sunroof so far does what it is supposed to do.

I still need to put the engagement hook in and tweak the throw on the lifting rods. Seems like it will need to lift the front tension plate about 1/2".

It is designed so that turning the handle to the left will open the top and allow it to slide back. Turn 180 degrees to the right and it latches and pulls down on the front tension plate.

The trailing bows move up and over nicely. Not sure if the mechanicals are moving back as far as original.

I plan on making a template so there wont be any worries about cutting the roof section right. The directions will be easy. Push the trim ring in between the roof longitudinal stiffeners, lining up the latching edge with the vent wing separator. Drill through the four pre drilled corner holes. Remove the trim ring. Lay the cut templates on the top aligning the templates with the corner holes. Make the marks and cut out.
This was one of the hardest parts to figure out.

Once its cut the headliner can be installed or the old one reconfigured. The trim ring pinches the headliner. The headliner will install as original.
I will use lots of clamps and a urethane windshield sealant.

The front edge will need to be feathered in and painted just in front of the curl. But all the other edges will hide under the rails and rear tension plate.

I will make fiberglass molds and templates for all parts. I do plan on listing this in the classifieds once I am happy with it.

I think this beats welding and grinding a clip in.

Please let me know if you see ways to improve from the photos. I can handle it.

The stop bumpers under the front tension plate transfer torque to the corners to bring them down tight. By adjusting the stops higher you get tighter at the outside, too high and the middle doesn't seal.

[Nor_AL_67]

Nice looking work did you start from scratch? What will the cost be? So what is fiberglass and what will be metal?
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63 Sedan
61 Rag
67 Type 1 Sedan
63 Type 2 Standard Walk-thru
69 Ghia
68 912

Amateur Versus Rusty Bus!

[weinerbug]

Started from scratch. I spent more time figuring out why they designed it the way they did. Turns out to be about the only way to accomplish what the sunroof does.

The white parts in the photos are and will be fiberglass. The mechanicals, front and middle bow are mostly aluminum. The trailing bows are steel tube and held by spring steel.

This will be cottage industry. Maybe a little slow. Its mostly time, cutting, machining fitting. My ball park price is $1135. Bigger quantities I could do better on price.

[Lidpainter]

That section looks really nice. I assume this is meant to be installed with panel adhesive since it is fiberglass and not metal. It may be on the expensive side since original (used) clips are still available for less than half that. If there was a way to mass produce and a distribution system you would be in good shape.
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[weinerbug]

The first step to installing the Ragtop Kit is to remove the old headliner or drop the old one enough to remove all but the rear bow and cut the sunroof section out of the old one.

My recommendation is to install this kit during a repaint when you would have the windows out and be replacing the headliner with a headliner cut for a ragtop.

Push the Ragtop trim ring inside the roof up against the roof. You want to align the inside front edge with the Vent wing vertical supports. From outside this will put the curl of the Ragtop 6" back of the windshield rubber. But this is difficult to measure from the top and without the rubber in place.

The trim ring will push in and hold in place being a good fit.

Next check the front edge alignment with the vertical Vent wing support.

Now drill thru the four corner guide holes pre drilled in the trim ring. This allows for accurate placement of the templates on top.

Remove the trim ring from inside and set aside.

The steel top is a compound curve, so anything flat wont lay up correctly. Use the thin paper strips with the guide hole marks to template the Ragtop hole. Use a sharpie to make the mark. Mask off 2" each side of the steel roof to protect the top. Now you will use a sawzall to cut right on those lines.

Cut the sides first and form the radiuses as best you can. Put a rolled up blanket inside under the roof section and tie ropes up and over so as you cut the front and back with the section now supported. This will also dampen the vibration from the cutting and save your jitters. Once it is completely cut out, untie and lift it out.

Use a die grinder to clean up the lines and smooth.

[bill may]

are you going to add the 2 webbing straps that pull the bows forward like original ragtop?
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Admin note: Bill Passed away - July, 2017

1965 panel bus-Kermit
"Camping is cheaper than therapy"
www.sv2s.com
www.steeringboxscrapers.net
SBS #100
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=453617

[weinerbug]

After marking the cut lines, slots were cut using a rotary cut off wheel.

Applied 4 layers of 2" wide masking tape which protected the new paint fine. The hole was cut out using a sawzall which made fast work of the lines. Then the radiused corners were cut out with a handheld jig saw.

Then a trial fit of the ragtop support and rails. Nothing fastened or screwed in just yet.

Now the new ragtop cloth headliner in 10 pieces. Got the rear section and one of the quarter sections in today.

[weinerbug]

Bill, not sure what the webbing straps are.

I thought the tubular bows are pulled by the 2 each spring steel straps, and the square aluminum bow assembly was just pulled forward by the canvas top.

Tell me more.

Thanks

[HerrrKafer]

very nice project....
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Evan H.

[weinerbug]

Thanks Bill,

I hadn't noticed the webbing before, now I see it. This keeps the bows from pulling the pockets in the canvas and/or putting stretch on the headliner.

Thanks

[bill may]

yes,originally canvas. i use 3/4" wide by 12" long nylon webbing as it don't rot. otherwise without it can rip cover where slots are for tubing ends.
_________________
Admin note: Bill Passed away - July, 2017

1965 panel bus-Kermit
"Camping is cheaper than therapy"
www.sv2s.com
www.steeringboxscrapers.net
SBS #100
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=453617

[weinerbug]

Thanks again Bill. That's what I'll do.

I have to say, drilling holes and cutting a roof in a newly painted 1958 beetle sedan took all the courage I could muster. Once I drilled the first hole that was it. Then, when an hour later I had the roof section out and the Sunroof fit in like a glove I felt a lot better.

The roof is quite strong because of its shape, even when cut.

So my advice is if you contemplate doing this - do it before painting. You wont care as much and feathering in the sunroof will just be part of the bodywork.

You can use my experience as the confidence that it will all go together.

Also, my little handheld jigsaw cut the steel roof just fine. You don't need a sawzall.

It is just a matter of preference, but this project turns a wonderful little car into a wonderful little sports car!

[jmsmilin]

[weinerbug]

So, after making molds for all the finished parts I installed the sunroof today. Took about an hour.

Get plenty of clamps (.99 cents at home depot) or C clamps with a 2-3" throat, "Goop" brand automotive adhesive (3 tubes), and shim stock so the clamps put even pressure across the sheet metal. I also used a wax and grease remover on all surfaces.

Then trial fit again and get all the shims cut, clamps ready. Sand the surfaces to be bonded with a coarse grit to maximize adhesion.

Spread the adhesive evenly on all surfaces to be bonded with a 2" spreader. You have to work fast so have the shims and clamps ready.

Then put the sunroof in, check again. Mine was 6" from the rain gutter on both sides at the front, 6 7/8" from the gutters on both sides at the rear.

You have to get the clamps started at the middle and work out. The 1" X 1/2" pine lattice helps spread the load.

I used the rails along the sides to pull the sides up evenly.

After 24 hours, I can remove the clamps, grind smooth and fill the remaining gaps. The sheet metal at the front lays in a 1/16" deep recess so is pretty flush with the fiberglass.

I will paint on Saturday.

[weinerbug]

The joins between fiberglass and steel were small but a skim coat of a fine finish body filler over the top and feather edged made it completely blend.

First 100 grit knock down, then 300 grit , then a 600 wet sand.

I put on a medium coat followed by two heavy coats for about a 3 mil build of hardened Urethane. Had to mask off the entire car to prevent overspray. Wish I had done this all before painting.

I will need to wet sand the edges above the quarter window, and at the A post later and buff.

After an overnight of drying I can install the rails.

Some things I learned:

-Do this before painting
-Use automotive "Goop" adhesive liberally, and maybe rivet. The rivets could be ground smooth or off later. Using silicone rubber adhesive, thick epoxy based filler, alone aren't strong enough. The "Goop" brand adhesive for automotive goes on like silicone but sets up hard but with the flexibility of steel. I didn't use rivets, but think I should have to make the whole job easier.
The nice thing about the clamps is that I could use the pine strips to spread the pressure out evenly.
Maybe rivets just at front where there is more unsupported stress. These could be countersunk and covered.

Next up
- finish the headliner
- mount the body
- seat belts
- carpet
- seats
- sunroof vinyl
- windows
- bumpers
- paint the wheels
- drive

The 40hp wasn't original but after sitting 25 years started up nice. Just had to pour a teaspoon of gas down the carb. It was about 40 degrees so it needed a little to remember what to do.

The hot air blowing out of the fresh air heaters is strong.

[mikeinch]

Your price really is not that bad considering someone with little or no welding experiance could install your kit. By the time they have paid a good welder to install a ragtop roof section they would be well above your price.

[detroitjohnny]

cool!!

being in Michigan, will you be at any of the shows this summer with the car?? I would really like to get a first hand look a it.



johnny
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ostkuste

[weinerbug]

Thanks,

The cars 50th B-day is April 16th. So I hope to have it done by then. Lots left to do, but most of the components are staged and ready.

I plan on attending the VW of Michigan show in Ypsilanti in June. June 8th I think. Other than that probably just drive it around, to the store and work in Ann Arbor. Maybe some soccer games with the kids.

Got most of the headliner done today! Then I can mount body to the chassis.

[weinerbug]

The headliner is installed in the Replica Ragtop 58 beetle. I started at the back and worked forward. The distance from the sides to the ragtop was spot on. Front windshield to the ragtop edge was spot on. That was a big relief. It was fun to install the dome light finally. The big heavy duty jobs are done and the fun stuff begins.
The old 40 Hp purrs and sounds throatier than I remember VWs sounding. Reminds me more of the thrum of the 2 Liter Triumph engine. Makes me wonder if some one big bored it. It does have a 30 Pict 1 carb.

Before I buttoned things up on the headliner I took a few shots.

Here you can see I stuffed some padding down and around the A pillar to keep some tension where the headliner is glued at the corner.

Here is the back edge where the headliner clips in using the panel clips. The headliner under the sliding roof will lay under this clipped area.

The sides are just clipped on here. I will put some fluff under the sides before buttoning up.

Here it is still just clipped in using office supply paper clips.

The body went on the chassis this weekend. So now things can move along a little faster. Next is carpet, upholstery install, and .......

[weinerbug]

I got the Vinyl ragtop from TMI a couple of days ago, and you can see from my excitement I got dust on it from my car factory.

Went with vinyl even though I know everyone goes with Stay Fast canvas now. The canvas is an elegant look and looks more contemporary, but I wanted to see what the original was like.

Wow! Its really nice. It will be a cinch to clean also.

So I have just trial fit the top to the bows at this point. Either luck or good planning, all the slots in the top fit the spacing I had planned. The bows fit right in.

Here it is just half open.

I still need to put the bolts in the rear tension plate and drill the top for them, Need to reinforce the front frame to the steel at the front of the top. This is so when the latch comes in and tensions the top it can't distort the join between the fiberglass and the steel.

Also, need to make adjustments to the front bow to lift it so it doesn't drag hard on the headliner.

I was pleased that even though the top is just set on top right now the folds go up and over as you slide the top back just right. Half way open you get one fold, move it all the way back two folds.