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Russ
Samba Member
Joined: January 12, 2003
Posts: 1560
Location: Langley B.C.
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 Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:02 pm Post subject: where should the speedo be grounded? |
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hi all,
i'm in the process of rewiring my 55 beetle.
i am at the speedo but am having problems,i have since pulled it out to try and make it work.
i have all wires hooked up corretly.
when i turn on headlights the background lights come on and i can make the high beam light come on.
i have the black power wire to the bottom post of the speedo (block) indicator lights and oil/gen light
all are hooked up but none come on?
i do have power to the lights there,when tested each light has the proper volts.
but nothing lights up leading me to a ground issue.
i have pulled the speedo out and grounded the body and put power to the background light and high beam light both come on.
with the ground still in place i hit all the lights in the plastic block and none come on.
if i put a ground on the power block and hit each light individually they all come on.
i for the life of me casn't figure out what i need to do in order for them to come on.
any ideas would be great thanks guys
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joshbuchan
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2007
Posts: 712
Location: victoria bc canada
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| may be a stupid question but are you hooked up at the other ends ie oil press switch, alt etc?? |
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Matthew Tolbert
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 707
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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the oil and generator light are different than all the rest of the bulbs meaning that the wire going to them is your ground and the body of the bulb holder where it plugs into the speedometer is your 12v DC. you should have a black wire going to a terminal around the oil and gen light that is hot when the switch is turned on. i just looked at the diagram in the tech section and if you have semaphores the light in the dash for them is also the same as the oil and gen. for a simple test turn your switch on and ground the oil and gen wires in the engine compartment and see if they come on. hope this helps.
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Matthew Tolbert
1958 ragtop
1961 doublecab
1965 Notchback S |
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joshbuchan
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2007
Posts: 712
Location: victoria bc canada
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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that's exactly why I asked about the other ends of the wires.
I went through the backward ground in the bulb thing when I was trying to hook up an extra super in your face oil pressure warning light on my tach next to the shift light. |
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Russ
Samba Member
Joined: January 12, 2003
Posts: 1560
Location: Langley B.C.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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yes i do have them hooked up to the coil and alt.
Mathew,
i can make them come on by grounding them indiviadually (at the speedo)
if i ground them in the engine bay and they come on what does that mean exactly?
thanks for the replies
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Matthew Tolbert
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 707
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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you said you have it hooked to the coil, if so that is the wrong place one wire needs to go to the oil sending unit on the side of the engine case and the other to the alt. this may be the cause of your problems as you are feeding back 12 volts positive instead of a ground on the wire that is hooked to the coil. make sue they are in the correct places and let me know.
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Matthew Tolbert
1958 ragtop
1961 doublecab
1965 Notchback S |
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Russ
Samba Member
Joined: January 12, 2003
Posts: 1560
Location: Langley B.C.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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 i have done so much wiring the last few days my head is spinning.
i new as soon as i posted it i was wrong.
it is infact hooked to the alt..and oil sensor
my mistake..i will also point out 1 semaphore is out for repair so the wires on the one side go no were.
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joshbuchan
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2007
Posts: 712
Location: victoria bc canada
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| do you have a ground strap on your trans yet? almost sounds like a bad ground at the motor..........try and stick an ohm meter between the base/housing of your oil press switch and a good ground on the body |
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Matthew Tolbert
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 707
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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alright lets try to simplify this, the two wires that are in the engine compartment go straight from there to the screw terminals on the bulb holders. they are your ground and are what switches your lights on and off. when your first turn your key on there is no oil pressure on the sending unit so it is grounded through the engine case,and the alt wire is grounded inside the regulator somehow (im not even gonna pretend i understand how it works, i have read about it and still dont know ). your hot wire is coming straight from the 4 fuse block that is powered when the key is in the on position and should go to the screw terminal that is on the speedo close to the oil,alt and semaphore lights. when you start the engine the oil pressure goes up and the alt starts charging and you lose your grounds and the lights go out but since the key is on your hot wire is still hot unlike all the other bulbs where you always have a ground and you switch the hot wire on and off to make them operate. so by hooking the wires that are in the engine compartment straight to ground you are effectively bypassing the oil sending unit and regulator GROUND switches and if they come on you have everything hooked up correctly at the speedo (make sure the switch is on). give this a try and let us know.
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Matthew Tolbert
1958 ragtop
1961 doublecab
1965 Notchback S |
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Russ
Samba Member
Joined: January 12, 2003
Posts: 1560
Location: Langley B.C.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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ok i will after work tomorrow and let you know.
speedo is out but will reinstall it and wire it back up.
then test it
thanks for the help so far
josh
i do have a trans strap on
although it goes from the trans the the frame horn were i drill and tapped a hole for a ground.
what should my ohm meter read if i test there?
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joshbuchan
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2007
Posts: 712
Location: victoria bc canada
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| couldn't tell ya exacty, a couple ohms max i'd think just not infinate |
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Bruce
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Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17573
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| Russ wrote: |
i do have a trans strap on
although it goes from the trans the the frame horn were i drill and tapped a hole for a ground.
what should my ohm meter read if i test there? |
You should have quite a bit less than 1 ohm. Measure from the trans case to the chassis. I always take the old corroded ground straps and bead blast them. They come out looking like new. Coat them in your favourite anti-corrosion spray like WD-40.
On the trans, scrape away the corroded Mg around the stud so you get good contact. Think about all the other metal to metal contacts in the cct. For example, you need good contact between the intermediate housing of the trans and the main trans case. You need good contact between the main case and the starter. If the machined pad for the starter is painted, sand it down to bright metal (then spray it with anti-corrosion spray.) You also need good contact between the main trans case and the engine case. Then between the engine case and the generator stand. Then between the gen stand and the alternator. Don't forget the other side. The distributor needs good contact. If you've powdercoated the dist clamp bracket, strip it off, the dist does not ground well enough just plugged into the hole in the case.
I could keep going on and on, but I think you get the point. Think about the horn now (through the column, steering box, front beam, frame head, etc.)
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Russ
Samba Member
Joined: January 12, 2003
Posts: 1560
Location: Langley B.C.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| Bruce wrote: |
| Russ wrote: |
i do have a trans strap on
although it goes from the trans the the frame horn were i drill and tapped a hole for a ground.
what should my ohm meter read if i test there? |
You should have quite a bit less than 1 ohm. Measure from the trans case to the chassis. I always take the old corroded ground straps and bead blast them. They come out looking like new. Coat them in your favourite anti-corrosion spray like WD-40.
On the trans, scrape away the corroded Mg around the stud so you get good contact. Think about all the other metal to metal contacts in the cct. For example, you need good contact between the intermediate housing of the trans and the main trans case. You need good contact between the main case and the starter. If the machined pad for the starter is painted, sand it down to bright metal (then spray it with anti-corrosion spray.) You also need good contact between the main trans case and the engine case. Then between the engine case and the generator stand. Then between the gen stand and the alternator. Don't forget the other side. The distributor needs good contact. If you've powdercoated the dist clamp bracket, strip it off, the dist does not ground well enough just plugged into the hole in the case.
I could keep going on and on, but I think you get the point. Think about the horn now (through the column, steering box, front beam, frame head, etc.) |
ugh,
thanks i will start with the ground strap and go from there.
i powdercoated my trans so i am sure i have paint in places there should not be.the strap is new and so is all the hardware so i guess i was hoping the ground would work through the new bolts.
i'll give it a go and let you know how it goes
thanks russ
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Russ
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Joined: January 12, 2003
Posts: 1560
Location: Langley B.C.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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ok i have the alt that looks like this one
i think i have my power wrong.
main power should be to the post and the alt light should be the skinny wire on the regulator correct?
if i did have power to the wrong terminal could i have fried something in the alt??
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Russ
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Joined: January 12, 2003
Posts: 1560
Location: Langley B.C.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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ok as it turns out i had power going to the wrong terminal.
so lets back up a second i have an auto stick starter.i have the power wire's going to the big nut.then i have a red wire going to the solanoid (there are two tabs on top and one on the bottom of the solanoid,i have it hooked to one of the two top ones)
i will try and clean up my trans ground (new strap) if i am unable to ground the engine is there a way for me to seperatly ground the alt/oil lights to work?
i did ground them to test the lights and they do work in the dash.
hope to get it sorted out soon.
thanks for the replies so far
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joshbuchan
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2007
Posts: 712
Location: victoria bc canada
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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how the hell did you cram the ring terminal onto the spade and vice versa 
hope you didn't cook it
where is that second wire on the main power alt lug going? I only have 1
I can't remeber which terminal on the starter you use I seem to remeber #15?? are they marked?
So you got the lights to work by taking the wires of at the oil switch and alt and grounding them at that end?? where did you touch them to? did you try and ohm out the case to the chassis? if you have continuity between they should work.
If I was closer i'd be over to lend a hand, we'd get 'er sorted quick, sorry dude.
My bet is mr powdercoat got a little carried away on the trans. like bruce was saying all those spots have to be clean metal on metal. |
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Russ
Samba Member
Joined: January 12, 2003
Posts: 1560
Location: Langley B.C.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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not my alt in the pic borrowed it from the gallery.
i lengthened the wires in the engine bay to route them so they were cleaner (mixed them up when i reattached them) oops
i checked the ground strap for continuity ground strap to trans good,ground strap to engine good (my tester just beeps if the circuit is complete.
so right from my ground strap all the way into the engine bay i have good conductivity.
the oil sender for somereason if i touch the spade and the base of it no continuity?? touch the base and the block it beeps so i am good there.
is my switch bad?
testing the alt i have a good conection right from the spade terminal to the bolts holding the stand in place.
if i take either spade and ground them out to anything metal the lights come on.
so i'm at a loss as to why the lights wont come on in the dash??
mabey you should come over for the swap meet 
thanks for the help so far
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joshbuchan
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2007
Posts: 712
Location: victoria bc canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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well there's your first problem....spade terminal on the oil switch, tisk tisk if you are posting on the samba you have to use screw terminals or the samba stock natzis will get you  haha if with no pressure and your switch body to terminal is open (no beepy) then yes you have a dud.
glad that wasn't your pic of the alt, cause if I did come help we'd have to rip that ugly crap out, can't have such a minty car with shatty wiring.
if you have continuity from the alt spade to the stand studs you should have the same if you went between the alt body and case right? is the cradle of your stand(where it contacts the alt) powdercoated?
you'll have this sorted long before the swap |
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joshbuchan
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Joined: April 12, 2007
Posts: 712
Location: victoria bc canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| russ, just had a thought. you don't by chance have MSD going in and have the diode in the alt wire in backwards do you? |
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Russ
Samba Member
Joined: January 12, 2003
Posts: 1560
Location: Langley B.C.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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nope no msd
i think i have two seperate problems.i think i have a dud oil switch (with a spade thats right i said spade terminal:)
alt stand was powdercoated,but i made sure i taped the base to the engine and were the alt mounts to it.
now get this i had it polished and then clear coated...i was just thinking about it last night.so i think that may be the next problem.
i sure as hell hope i have this sorted by swap time:)
thanks Josh
if you are out this way for the swap swing by and i'll show the car to you
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