Removing a Syncro starter without removing the Locker Servo

[Sodo]

I had to exchange my starter today. Last time I did it, removing the little roll-pin from under the protective boot on the Locker Servo linkage was a total PITA. I wasn't looking forward to doing it again.

But I discovered this time (and wrote it in my Bentley manual) that you do NOT have to disconnect the Locker servo as specified in the Bentley. Last time this simple little task required a hammer and a punch which I have, but I needed a 3rd hand to pull the stiff rubber boot back to expose the roll pin, and there is barely room there for 2 hands much less a hammer, punch and 3rd hand.

Disconnect the drive-shaft from the tranny. Remove ALL of the servo bracket bolts (2x-7mm head, 2x-10mm head), and slide the circlip up. The Servo linkage remains attached, just rotated on its linkage. Move the bracket out of the way and wiggle the starter outta there. Starter wiggles out without stressing the Servo linkage or anything else with just barely enough room. I can imagine the available wiggle room could vary from vehicle to vehicle.

Another option might be to disconnect an engine mount to drop the engine/tranny down, giving more wiggle room above. I did not try this or even investigate it, just another idea.

The entire job took me 1.5 hours, start to finish - a lot longer than changing a 2wd starter!

Hope this helps someone.

Tom

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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[Dogpilot]

Your taking the fun out of it. Nothing is more fun than trying to get a very small part back in while working upside down with crud falling in your eyes.

Good tip, hopefully one I will not have to use for a while, I had to replace my starter a while back as well.
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Geology with a Syncro rocks!
86 Syncro Westy AKA "The Bughunter"
98 Disco I
08 Range Rover SC
08 VW Rabbit S
1951 O-1G

[ranchero]

Thanks Sodo - great tip!
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'90 Westy Syncro EJ25 (money pit #1)
'96 FZJ80 (cheap by comparison^^)
'13 Golf R. Daily driver.

[rs4-380]

wow, i was just going to post the same exact thing as I spent the morning doing it as well. We must have been channeling each other.

I only needed to undo the 2 bolts holding the bracket to the tranny, didn't bother with the bolts holding the actuator to the bracket.

Also, do yourself a favor and get a starter with the short stud for the power cable connection, it makes getting it out and in much easier. If you get one with a long stud, you can always cut it down. It requires that you change the big eyelet end of the alternator connection to a normal ring terminal, but it will make it much easier to get it in and out in the future.
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Dave
87 EJ25 Syncro GL

[Sodo]

[tsombrero1]

I found that using a spring-loaded center punch made popping the roll pin out really easy. You can do it with one hand no problem... a few pops and its out.
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Tennessee Sombrero

1988 Westy, Syncro-nated
2003 Aprilia Caponord (now with Jif)
Atari 2600
1970 Earthbound Humanoid

[Sodo]

( spring-loaded center punch )

now THAT!! .......is brilliant! As I recall it was much easier to get the pin back in (than remove it). Thanks for the tip!

Tom

PS: here's a tool available at home depot --by 'General Tools': http://www.generaltools.com/Products/Automatic-Center-Punch__77.aspx
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[Alaric.H]

I did a syncro starter yesterday and I must admit I did not like it. I seemed to have a little trouble getting the pin in the actuator so I glued it on the head of a 3mm punch and 2 little tapes and it went right in.

[buspor63]

You guys are taking the "Macho" factor out of owning a Syncro....next you'll be recommending which scented sachet bag placed in the A/C duct makes the air smell best.....
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Imagine that, theres not an "h" in either Westfalia or Syncro?

[Tristar Eric]

Guess I'm lucky, the TDI conversion bell housing from Eurospec allows you to swap out starters without even coming close to the actuator.

And I have a TDI starter! They're slightly longer.

[morymob]

[IdahoDoug]

I'm thinking the scent of choice would smell like scorched Castrol oil - the old stuff from the 60s - mixed with a touch of hooch....

DougM

[buspor63]

[flomulgator]

SODO,
thanks for the tip! I just used your advice last night and was able to avoid taking the diff lock entirely out. I'm going to add my notes here in case it helps make it smoother (ie, less awful) for someone else.

1. Remove vacuum lines from actuator. Obvious for most but I ain't smert and couldn't figure out why the vacuum actuator was on there so damn tight for a while.

2. Rear pin on vacuum actuator will not clear syncro fuel tank insulation. Remove forward pin, remove rearward pin partway and angle actuator outward and upwards. This will allow clearance for socket wrench to bracket bolts. Remove bracket bolts.

3. Rotate bracket clockwise until rearward pin can just barely be wiggled out at an angle. Lift actuator outward, remove circlip.

4. Rotate everything back to starting position. Now rotate actuator ~90 degrees.

5. Pull bracket out as far as possible, then rotate it clockwise as far as possible. Clocking the actuator first gives better clearance for everything and allows the bracket to rotate farther.

6. I was then able to remove the starter in a forward and curving the nose down and out motion with much cursing. I have a permanent stud on the far side bolt that others may not have? This stud made everything worse.

7. Replacing I could not for the life of me reverse step 6, no matter how much I swore. I removed about a 1/4" of the positive terminal stud too to help with clearance. I think the issue is placing the absurdly long starter guide shaft in the hole (PHRASING!). What worked for me was rotating the whole starter counter clockwise when looking rearward, so that the solenoid was below the coolant pipes. starter moves into place "easily" then, but then there is some serious wedging to perform to get the coolant hose out of the way of the solenoid and wires to rotate the starter to the correct orientation.

8. With the starter close to the correct position (solenoid and wiring on correct side of coolant hose, in "pocket" of gas tank), I then had to pull it forward to clear and seat the far side stud, and the place a nut on the stud while still forward so that the nut could seat in the "groove" of the starter housing. Rotate nut (horrible hand position) while moving starter inward. Wiggle to seat. This step would not be required if no stud present.

9. Apply degreaser, band-aids, and beer.
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She's built like a steakhouse, but she handles like a bistro!

[morymob]

Never done it but inserted in instrucions of After starter bolted uo,, wires replaced I would NOW see if starter works ok, several starts, before installing servo & axle, my 2cts.

[Chuckwp]

[Steve M.]

There is a shorter starter that makes it easier.
Supposed to clear the actuator so you don't have to remove it.
I daw it referenced on another thread, but lost my notes on which one it is.
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This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them.

[Pcforno]

Here it is Steve-

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=671949&start=0

It’s the 1.8t starter (not TDI). I used it on a vanagon bellhousing with a 1.8t flywheel and the westy ventures plate. Had to lower the engine cradle some to gain access but no locker bracket fiddling. And it starts great

[IdahoDoug]

When I put my locker actuator back in, I also tossed the 2 long skinny bolts that hold the actuator to the bracket. Those are way too thin and mine were a nightmare of gentle cajoling over a couple days to get out. I replaced them with 2 long cotter pins. zip - zip. 10 seconds to get in or out.

Getting to the top of the original bolts was insane clearance - wise.
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[Steve M.]