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bluebug79
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Joined: November 12, 2008
Posts: 63
Location: PHILIPPINES
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 Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:54 pm Post subject: ram air intake |
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| are these type of intakes beneficial to vw carbureted aircooled engines ,specifically a single carb? |
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Eaallred
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Joined: May 18, 2003
Posts: 5756
Location: West Valley City, Utah
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:12 am Post subject: |
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From what i've read, "Ram air" intake systems only start working once you hit around 100mph.
I don't think it would be worth the fabrication on a street car.
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Eric Allred
You have to remember something: Everybody pities the weak; Jealousy you have to earn. |
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michael1968
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Joined: August 17, 2007
Posts: 36
Location: Newcastle, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| Actully getting pressuried air into your carb from an intake system can be hard work but there is a definate bonus from running a cold air intake (as long as it's not freezing out side). Power can drop about 1% for every 7 degrees C rise in temp. |
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Eaallred
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Joined: May 18, 2003
Posts: 5756
Location: West Valley City, Utah
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| michael1968 wrote: |
| Actully getting pressuried air into your carb from an intake system can be hard work but there is a definate bonus from running a cold air intake (as long as it's not freezing out side) |
True, but with all the stock cooling tin and seals in place, the upper engine bay is ambient air temp. Bone stock VW's in that sense, are all ready "cold air" intake if you disconnect the hot air tube.
| michael1968 wrote: |
| Power can drop about 1% for every 7 degrees C rise in temp. |
That's all? Thats 44.6 degrees farenheit. Doesn't seem like much worth the effort either. That would be 2 hp on a 200hp car if for some reason it was pulling in 115 degree air into the intakes on a 70 degree day. Datalogging my car at the track (back end cut open, air recirculates around pretty bad), I was pulling in 106 degree air on a 70 degree day and was thinking on the best way to modify the intake to pull in cool air. Maybe I won't worry about that too much either. It would make about 2hp difference on my car, I can make that much power somewhere else easier and cheaper mabye. I'll have to look into it further.
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Eric Allred
You have to remember something: Everybody pities the weak; Jealousy you have to earn. |
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fastinradford
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Joined: June 08, 2008
Posts: 2895
Location: Athens Ohio
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Eaallred wrote: |
| michael1968 wrote: |
| Actully getting pressuried air into your carb from an intake system can be hard work but there is a definate bonus from running a cold air intake (as long as it's not freezing out side) |
True, but with all the stock cooling tin and seals in place, the upper engine bay is ambient air temp. Bone stock VW's in that sense, are all ready "cold air" intake if you disconnect the hot air tube.
| michael1968 wrote: |
| Power can drop about 1% for every 7 degrees C rise in temp. |
That's all? Thats 44.6 degrees farenheit. Doesn't seem like much worth the effort either. That would be 2 hp on a 200hp car if for some reason it was pulling in 115 degree air into the intakes on a 70 degree day. Datalogging my car at the track (back end cut open, air recirculates around pretty bad), I was pulling in 106 degree air on a 70 degree day and was thinking on the best way to modify the intake to pull in cool air. Maybe I won't worry about that too much either. It would make about 2hp difference on my car, I can make that much power somewhere else easier and cheaper mabye. I'll have to look into it further. |
In theory, but have you ever put your hand in there after driving around town on a 100F day? |
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Eaallred
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Joined: May 18, 2003
Posts: 5756
Location: West Valley City, Utah
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| fastinradford wrote: |
| Eaallred wrote: |
| michael1968 wrote: |
| Actully getting pressuried air into your carb from an intake system can be hard work but there is a definate bonus from running a cold air intake (as long as it's not freezing out side) |
True, but with all the stock cooling tin and seals in place, the upper engine bay is ambient air temp. Bone stock VW's in that sense, are all ready "cold air" intake if you disconnect the hot air tube.
| michael1968 wrote: |
| Power can drop about 1% for every 7 degrees C rise in temp. |
That's all? Thats 44.6 degrees farenheit. Doesn't seem like much worth the effort either. That would be 2 hp on a 200hp car if for some reason it was pulling in 115 degree air into the intakes on a 70 degree day. Datalogging my car at the track (back end cut open, air recirculates around pretty bad), I was pulling in 106 degree air on a 70 degree day and was thinking on the best way to modify the intake to pull in cool air. Maybe I won't worry about that too much either. It would make about 2hp difference on my car, I can make that much power somewhere else easier and cheaper mabye. I'll have to look into it further. |
In theory, but have you ever put your hand in there after driving around town on a 100F day? |
No, but I've driven around with a remote BBQ thermometer in the engine bay to watch the temp. 
With all the seals and tin in place (everything like it should), I read the same temp in the upper engine bay as I do the thermometer hanging out the wing-window.
That's how I check my street VW's to see if I'm recirculating hot air or not. You should be within a degree or two. If not, start checking for gaps and also check to see what your engine bay vacuum is.
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Eric Allred
You have to remember something: Everybody pities the weak; Jealousy you have to earn. |
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michael1968
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Joined: August 17, 2007
Posts: 36
Location: Newcastle, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| Eaallred wrote: |
| michael1968 wrote: |
| Actully getting pressuried air into your carb from an intake system can be hard work but there is a definate bonus from running a cold air intake (as long as it's not freezing out side) |
True, but with all the stock cooling tin and seals in place, the upper engine bay is ambient air temp. Bone stock VW's in that sense, are all ready "cold air" intake if you disconnect the hot air tube.
| michael1968 wrote: |
| Power can drop about 1% for every 7 degrees C rise in temp. |
That's all? Thats 44.6 degrees farenheit. Doesn't seem like much worth the effort either. That would be 2 hp on a 200hp car if for some reason it was pulling in 115 degree air into the intakes on a 70 degree day. Datalogging my car at the track (back end cut open, air recirculates around pretty bad), I was pulling in 106 degree air on a 70 degree day and was thinking on the best way to modify the intake to pull in cool air. Maybe I won't worry about that too much either. It would make about 2hp difference on my car, I can make that much power somewhere else easier and cheaper mabye. I'll have to look into it further. |
You're right, if you're engine tin is all sealed up the engine bay in a bug wont be much hotter than outside. I guess it's different on a WC car with the intake behind the rad.
1% isn't much but if you're searching for that last bit of power it could be worth while. |
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bluebug79
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Joined: November 12, 2008
Posts: 63
Location: PHILIPPINES
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:24 am Post subject: warm air intakes |
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http://www.osintakes.com/
what are your thoughts about this link? |
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Eaallred
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Joined: May 18, 2003
Posts: 5756
Location: West Valley City, Utah
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:23 am Post subject: Re: warm air intakes |
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Looks like someone with good intentions, but doesn't understand what he's doing IMHO. It's no more "cold air" than the stock system.
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Eric Allred
You have to remember something: Everybody pities the weak; Jealousy you have to earn. |
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Viande
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Joined: August 14, 2008
Posts: 1719
Location: GA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:37 am Post subject: |
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In my opinion on a type 1 it is a waste of money. The cooling fan and carburetor are pulling in fresh air constantly and exhausting them out and under the rear of the vehicle. This is a completely different setup from your typical automobile. These have a radiator and ac condenser mounted ahead of the engine which exhausts its heated air directly on the engine.
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Bobby
New Items In Stock, NOS & OEM Seals,Parts and Terminals
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Eaallred
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Joined: May 18, 2003
Posts: 5756
Location: West Valley City, Utah
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| Viande wrote: |
| In my opinion on a type 1 it is a waste of money. The cooling fan and carburetor are pulling in fresh air constantly and exhausting them out and under the rear of the vehicle. This is a completely different setup from your typical automobile. These have a radiator and ac condenser mounted ahead of the engine which exhausts its heated air directly on the engine. |
Exactly right.
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Eric Allred
You have to remember something: Everybody pities the weak; Jealousy you have to earn. |
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ALB
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Joined: August 05, 2008
Posts: 3496
Location: beautiful suburban Wet Coast of Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:09 am Post subject: |
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Looked at the osintakes site. I emailed him asking for any data to substantiate his claims. I'll let you guys know if i get anything back.
And to think all this time there's been 12+ hp right there and it was that simple! 
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Stripped66
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Joined: May 31, 2005
Posts: 3508
Location: Charleston, SC
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| ALB wrote: |
Looked at the osintakes site. I emailed him asking for any data to substantiate his claims. I'll let you guys know if i get anything back.
And to think all this time there's been 12+ hp right there and it was that simple! |
It looks like his "lime green COLD AIR intake" is placing the filter right into the stream of the waste cooling air from the head and cylinders (which would be hot air  ).
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| 66brm wrote: |
| Bodacious wrote: |
| Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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Viande
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Joined: August 14, 2008
Posts: 1719
Location: GA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| Stripped66 wrote: |
It looks like his "lime green COLD AIR intake" is placing the filter right into the stream of the waste cooling air from the head and cylinders (which would be hot air ). |
To be less than kind it would appear the guy is clueless.
But for every shiny or brightly colored lollipop there is a potential sucker.
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Bobby
New Items In Stock, NOS & OEM Seals,Parts and Terminals
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Stripped66
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Joined: May 31, 2005
Posts: 3508
Location: Charleston, SC
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| Viande wrote: |
| Stripped66 wrote: |
It looks like his "lime green COLD AIR intake" is placing the filter right into the stream of the waste cooling air from the head and cylinders (which would be hot air ). |
To be less than kind it would appear the guy is clueless.
But for every shiny or brightly colored lollipop there is a potential sucker. |
I've got vinyl stickers with more HP potential than that intake set-up...
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| 66brm wrote: |
| Bodacious wrote: |
| Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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Scott Novak
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Joined: October 12, 2004
Posts: 1586
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:27 am Post subject: |
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The bigger problem is getting enough air into the engine compartment so that the fan isn't robbing air from the carbs. Using a deck lid with more louvers or propping open the deck lid may help.
Scott Novak |
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Eaallred
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Joined: May 18, 2003
Posts: 5756
Location: West Valley City, Utah
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Scott Novak wrote: |
The bigger problem is getting enough air into the engine compartment so that the fan isn't robbing air from the carbs. Using a deck lid with more louvers or propping open the deck lid may help.
Scott Novak |
That is true.
My testing has shown that engine bay vacuum is a major issue with these cars. Primarily due to the fact that most VW's out there are running engines/cooling systems larger than what came in the car.
Relieving that vacuum in a way that does not promote recirculating of the hot air from underneath has shown much larger differences in engine operating temps than anything else I have tested.
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Eric Allred
You have to remember something: Everybody pities the weak; Jealousy you have to earn. |
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gerico
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Joined: May 20, 2004
Posts: 322
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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Eric,
How do you measure engine bay vacuum? Is it low enough even at high speeds to register on a vacuum meter?
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Cuog
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Joined: July 15, 2008
Posts: 509
Location: Richmond VA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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You might be able to get some extra HP, but you have to look at is it worth it. From what I've seen on various vehicles at standard speeds you're looking at a maybe 5hp max increase, and is that max potential really worth the work? Also you'd need to look at where you get the most pressure on the vehicle to take your "ram air" from. its alot a of work with very little return.
Although if you want cool/uniqueness points, I say go for it. |
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Bashr52
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Joined: July 16, 2006
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Location: On an island in VA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: warm air intakes |
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| Eaallred wrote: |
Looks like someone with good intentions, but doesn't understand what he's doing IMHO. It's no more "cold air" than the stock system. |
| Quote: |
| You definitely know this is a high performance part as they come in a variety of colors (Red, Blue, Green, Yellow, Silver, Natural Metal Clear, Lime Green, Orange or Gold). |
Nice |
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