69 Wiring diagram confusion

[baygirl]

Re my 69 Bay Camper (Feb.) VIN#239-170-078. Using the Samba tech info for wiring diagrams I would assume to use the 69-70 wiring diagram based on my vin#. But given it's date off the line, and the fact that it is using a 10 fuse panel, it would indicate the 67-68 and 69 diagram.

The wiring behind the dash is no help, the result of too many previous owners' "fix-ups" and I am seeing a 4 pin flasher relay and 9 pin flasher switch. I'm not sure if these were original or changed from the 9 pin relay and 2 pin switch that the 68/69? used. If I stick with the 4 pin relay and 9 pin switch do I need to make any other modifications?

One wire at a time! Thanks for any assistance.
Baygirl
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BayGirl
"Where there's a will there's a way"

68 Beetle
69 Westie

[borninabus]

welcome to the samba
and the wonderful world of previous owners!

when i was faced with your same situation ('71) i had to use all three wiring diagrams (69, 70 & 71) to get it straightened out. you've got it though, one wire at a time. sorry, i don't have any specific info on the 9 pin relay as a 71 does not have one--but i'm sure someone does.
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88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport

[baygirl]

Thanks for the encouragement. I may just have to weed through this with both diagrams! That the wiring is such a wrong colored jumbled mess makes it all the more confusing right now. I'm looking forward to solving this!
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BayGirl
"Where there's a will there's a way"

68 Beetle
69 Westie

[guatebus]

I've also had an issue with the wiring diagrams not being true to what was in my bus. I would imagine that there are more wiring variations than the diagrams indicate. Not to mention parts swaps and other general screwing around by previous owners.

On my '69 I have a 9 pin emergency flasher switch and the 4 pin relay, as well. And the 10 fuse fuse-box. I kind of use the 68-69 wiring diagram to figure out how to wire up the fuse-box and the 70 diagram to figure out the flasher switch and the relay. If you pay attention to each component and try to wire it correctly, it should work OK.

Assuming your fusebox is like mine, your "hot" wire (terminal 30) comes in from the battery, through the headlight switch, and on into fuse #9. Your ignition wire (terminal 15) is routed through fuses #1 and #2. Low beams are on #3 and #4 and high beams are on #5 and #6. Keeping this straight helps when trying to convert between the later diagram and the earlier. Make sure you're wiring things to the correct circuit on the fusebox, not just matching the fuse numbers. On the later diagram the fusebox is set up differently.

Of course, this is assuming that no one else has royally fucked everything up before you got the bus.

Make sure you disconnect your battery before you mess around with the wiring.
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'64 standard microbus
'69 deluxe microbus

[Blaubus]

68-71 switches are all the same- except that the 68 factory switch has wire extension on two wires. if you tape off or clip off the extension ends, you can use a three pin flasher relay of the 71. (if you are not a purist) the topic does not state whether or not the system has problems

[busdaddy]

[baygirl]

When I first started with this, yes, there were problems... when the white wire was connected to the 4 pin relay, with the ignition switch off, it buzzed and turn signal switch smoked! Not good. Once the ignition was turned on the buzzing stopped. Also, the turn signals worked when the ignition was off. (I may be confused, but it doesn't seem that they should be hot all the time?!) Didn't like smoking turn signal switch, so replaced it with another German switch. Seems to be ok.

OK, with the ignition switch on, emerg. flasher worked, headlights and taillights worked, brake lights worked, LEFT directionals worked, but RIGHT directional blinked rapidly. Pulled out 4 pin relay, it rattled alot. Figure it's cooked. And, no, the arrows on the fuel gauge did not light up and blink.

Tried using 9 pin flasher relay, then realized I had a 9 pin flasher switch... oops, backtrack...bought a new 4 pin flasher relay from NAPA.

At this point, I took a closer look at the wiring and saw that some of the wiring was bad, loosely taped melted wires (aargh) ...cleaned that up, replaced, repaired and fixed connectors... still having trouble with the fact that the wire colors are very much messed up. Then back to square one. Will start again on Monday re-wiring and testing. I'll move forward with the new 4 pin relay and work with both wiring diagrams, watching that the fuse panel connections/fuses are correct.

Yup, ALWAYS disconnect the battery before playing with wires!!

Thanks for helping! I'll update as I move along.
The only way to learn is to DO IT!
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BayGirl
"Where there's a will there's a way"

68 Beetle
69 Westie

[alnvilma]

type2.com has a number of diagrams different from what you see here...

[baygirl]

Thanks. I'll check the site.
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BayGirl
"Where there's a will there's a way"

68 Beetle
69 Westie

[guatebus]

I've been waiting for the chance to use this image, and this seems like my best shot:

Those little puppet guys in the workshop manuals know what's up: always check your wiring diagram!
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'64 standard microbus
'69 deluxe microbus

[busdaddy]

Cool pic, is that Jack from Jack in the box in a former day job when he still had hair?
The wiring diagram isn't too much help if a PO has used any color wire available though.
Go through a number of diagrams at type2.com and thesamba, any VW after 1970 uses the 4 pin relay on all systems and hazard switch wiring is the same too. Sounds like there's some wires mixed up on the hazard switch, it should get battery power (#30) and ignition power (#15) and what is sent to the flasher from the + terminal depends on if it's pulled out or not, the terminal #'s are on the switch and on most Geman flashers. No the signals shouldn't work when the key is off but the one side blinking faster is a separate issue, most likely a bad bulb or ground in a light socket or the signal switch (which it sounds like you already have experience with). A buzzing relay is often a short in a light fixture or the wiring to it, but if it does it all the time (in your case) or both ways suspect 49a (black/white/green).
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[baygirl]

Hahaha - Mr. Bill's father! - Duh- the obvious diagram is what I've been looking for all along!! How did you know that what I needed more than anything was a great laugh!

Thank you so much for all the suggestions and guidance. Couldn't do it without you all. I'll post back when I'm a bit further along.
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BayGirl
"Where there's a will there's a way"

68 Beetle
69 Westie

[baygirl]

Today was a good day! The wiring is nearly finished and the turn signals are now working along with just about everything else. Still have to figure out why the horn isn't working and wire up the dome lights.

The one thing I couldn't get sorted out are the turn signal lights on the speedo. The lights do work as they blink green when the hazards are on, but that 4th pin on the relay doesn't seem to function as it should. Not sure if the newer relay is the problem or what. Not a biggie if I have to live without them. As long as the folks outside the car know which way I'm turning I'm a happy camper!

You all have been a great help!
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BayGirl
"Where there's a will there's a way"

68 Beetle
69 Westie