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popimor Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2009 Posts: 11 Location: Lansing, MI
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:46 pm Post subject: Brake brackets etc. |
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So, i have an 85 Westfalia 2wd that sat in dry storage for 9 years. It is in pretty good shape! The brakes all need to be redone though from sitting, so I thought I would just go straight to a full upgrade at all wheels.
I have read every page of brake upgrade on this forum at one point or another over the past couple of weeks, and am somewhat overwhelmed, and can't seem to remember who had drawing of what style bracket for the different caliper and rotor applications that have been used. There is great information, but it is hard to find everything in one place without wading through many other posts.
Here is what I need and propose.
To start with, I have a friend who works with a CNC machine who can machine brackets for me which is a plus.
I want something simple, so I want to go with a similar front setup as fastforward listed for the synchro, when they were still around, using Audi 5000/100/200 parts.
http://www.syncro.ca/tech/audibrakes.htm
I would really like to use the matching rear rotors and calipers from the Audi on the rear. Basically g60 calipers on front, and the matching set that goes on the rear.
Basically what I need are CAD or other drawings of the front and rear brackets for these applications.
Does anyone have these or know who does?
The other thing I am trying to settle is whether or not I need to get 86+ spindles for the front or not. Wellington, and possibly other users, have found a way to use the existing spindles on older Vanagons. Correct?
Since there are not many front and rear combo solution pages I will be posting a simple step by step process, with photos, when installing these brakes.
This way there is a simple total solution, in one place on a single post that can be followed from start to finish as long as a person has
- bracket design
- machined stock rotors as hubs
These are somewhat difficult, but not insurmountable. $30 to have someone turn the stock rotors into hubs with a brake lathe. ???? to have brackets made.
I will include part numbers for the audi calipers, rotors, and other parts like brake lines. This way a user can just print out the single post and have instructions on how to do the procedure, and easy access to part numbers when things wear out.
Please help me make this easier. |
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240Gordy Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2008 Posts: 2354 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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I think the Ford set-up would be the best, for all the same reasons that make the Bostig engine kit a no-brainer. Cheap and plentiful parts donors and cheap and readily available FLAPS supplied parts. _________________ Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR |
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GeeZ12 Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2009 Posts: 303 Location: Mesa, AZ
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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I am upgrading the brakes of my '84s as well and read the 18 page thread about the upgrade - starkist70 had a really simple off the shelf upgrade for the early vanagons using mb 300d rotors, bmw 733i 4 piston calipers, and volvo 240 brake line. All you have to do is cut down your old rotors and make a hub from each. Do a search of that thread looking for '300d' and check for yourself - I bought 2 pairs of reman calipers for only $100 - The rotors are just a little more. |
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popimor Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2009 Posts: 11 Location: Lansing, MI
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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240Gordy wrote: |
I think the Ford set-up would be the best, for all the same reasons that make the Bostig engine kit a no-brainer. Cheap and plentiful parts donors and cheap and readily available FLAPS supplied parts. |
Are you talking about the solution loogy came up with for front and rear? This is a great solution, but more complicate and expensive than I want to do. I don't want to have rotors custom made...
Is there a ifferent ford solution I am unaware of? I have only seen the rear brake solution here which also needed machining of the rotors etc.
Front brakes
I wanted to find a way to stick with just making a bracket for the front and running the stock brake disk through a lathe to make it a hub only. This has been done in the front a few times. It looks like I will be using Mercedes ML320 front rotors for this, and g60 calipers. I just need a bracket design basically. I was hoping someone had one already so I don't have to reinvent the wheel, err brake that stops the wheel.
back brakes
I have read that the ML320 rotors from mercedes slide right over the rear hub. Is this true for the front ML320 rotors, the rear ml320 rotors, or both?
I would like to be able to use the rear ml320 rotors on the back of the van. I do not know what calipers would need to be used back there though. It would be ideal if the audi 5000/200/100 calipers were the right width. |
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popimor Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2009 Posts: 11 Location: Lansing, MI
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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GeeZ12 wrote: |
I am upgrading the brakes of my '84s as well and read the 18 page thread about the upgrade - starkist70 had a really simple off the shelf upgrade for the early vanagons using mb 300d rotors, bmw 733i 4 piston calipers, and volvo 240 brake line. All you have to do is cut down your old rotors and make a hub from each. Do a search of that thread looking for '300d' and check for yourself - I bought 2 pairs of reman calipers for only $100 - The rotors are just a little more. |
This interest me, but is still a little smaller than I wanted for rotors up front. Have you gotten a result yet? Also, I could not find info on what year bmw 733i calipers he had used. What year did you get? Do they fit?
You said you got two pairs of calipers. Are you planning on doing something similar in the back? |
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popimor Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2009 Posts: 11 Location: Lansing, MI
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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When I get this figured out, I will put a link at the beginning of this thread to the procedure I use.
Last edited by popimor on Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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GeeZ12 Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2009 Posts: 303 Location: Mesa, AZ
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Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:02 am Post subject: |
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I just started this project myself - I purchased 2 pairs for the fronts of my 2 84s - I will use the Ford Taurus for the rear using brackets from a914622. The front calipers look like they come from 84 bmw 733i and have 4 pots - the rotors are vented 11" from 87 mb 300d - Small? - What's funny is the 84 comes with 11" rotors while the 86+ come with 10". |
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whafalia Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2009 Posts: 685 Location: San Francisco
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Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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GeeZ12, do keep us updated on that front brake swap, looks like good bang for the buck for us with the older vans. |
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cannedveggiessuck Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2004 Posts: 233 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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You can bookmark threads you find useful or any for that matter.
There is a little bookmark this topic link at the bottom near left of each page. _________________ Time Travel Enthusiast.. |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9489 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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In the photo below, the caliper does not allow the shock bolt to come out.
During installation of your new rear discs,
be sure to orient your shock bolt with the nut on the outside.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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GeeZ12 Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2009 Posts: 303 Location: Mesa, AZ
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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:42 am Post subject: |
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Finally received my new rotors, calipers, and machined some spare rotors to make hubs. I just need new wheel bearings, seals, and make a new little brake line pigtail before I test them
Beck Arnley rebuilt caliper for '84 bmw 733i
4 piston caliper - came 'loaded' with pads $25.79 ea from rockauto
new rotor for '87 MB 300D for $24.02 each eBay auction
side view of new vented rotor with hub I turned on my lathe - price = sweat and time
this is the old rotor ring cut off to make the hub 'Anyone for a game of quoits?'
I'll post more later when I finish up and test. |
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GeeZ12 Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2009 Posts: 303 Location: Mesa, AZ
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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:46 am Post subject: |
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btw - It is possible that this also can be done on earlier vans from '73-'85 since they all use the same calipers. |
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GeeZ12 Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2009 Posts: 303 Location: Mesa, AZ
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Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I finally finished one of my '84s and will start the other when I finish my Bostig Conversion. I was reminded that I hadn't finished the paperwork so here is the finale - Anyone wanting me to email the recipe to them just pm me with your email address.
* - vented rotors from a 1984 MB 300SD
* - 4 pot calipers with pads from a 1984 BMW 733i
* - 8" metric bubble flare brake line from Autozone PAE-308
* - M12-1.75X25mm button head bolt for the rotor to hub
* - 3mm wheel spacer so that stock 14" steel rims fit.
Made hubs from the Vanagon rotors and bolted on the MB rotors
Drilled the mounting holes on the calipers for 15mm bolts
Dust shields fit. Bent the new brake lines to approximately 2-90 degree angles to fit.
3mm spacer - the calipers just barely touch the inside of the 14" wheel so I had to add the spacer.
The VW rotors were cut off and the outside hub mounting surface was machined to the maximum thickness that gave a smooth mounting surface for the wheel. The hub was cut on the inside to fit the 80mm rotor so that the rotor registered center to the hub diameter and the bolt portion of the hub was dimension cut from the inside for a total thickness of 16mm. This gave proper clearance and allowed use of the dust shields. The MB 300SD rotor was mounted to its hub with 5 M12x1.75 button head bolts.
The caliper mounting holes were drilled to 19/32” and bolted them on in the original location.
Hook up was simple, just bend an 8" bubble flare piece of brake line. Basically 2-90 degree bends.
I really love these brakes - I can now have confidence in the braking performance
[imghttps://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/thumbnails/625857.jpg[/img]
Hub Top View
[imghttps://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/thumbnails/625858.jpg[/img]
Hub Side View
[imghttps://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/thumbnails/625856.jpg[/img]
Grinding Points if necessary
[imghttps://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/thumbnails/625855.jpg[/img]
Finished with 3mm spacer for 14" steel wheel clearance |
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GeeZ12 Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2009 Posts: 303 Location: Mesa, AZ
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Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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One day I may remember how to post pics |
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levi Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005 Posts: 5522 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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I think you forgot to click on the pic itself, then highlight the url, copy, etc. _________________ One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way
https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40 |
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GeeZ12 Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2009 Posts: 303 Location: Mesa, AZ
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Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Alright here goes, I think I have it now
Hub Top View
Hub Profile
Grinding Points
Finished with 3mm spacers |
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Christopher Schimke Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005 Posts: 5374 Location: PNW
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Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Nice! _________________ "Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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GeeZ12 Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2009 Posts: 303 Location: Mesa, AZ
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Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Loogy! |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15119 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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bumped & bookmarked
a neat set up that retains use of the 14" rims but upgrades to vented rotors for less brake fade..
is there a listing of brake upgrade options in the sticky above? _________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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hdenter Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2008 Posts: 2749 Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
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Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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I agree! There just isn't enough info on the hub mods that I can drop off my spare set of rotors to be cut down. I'm hoping someone else has done this and has documented the mods more completely. _________________ '79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender |
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