Why Are You Looking for the Lowest Price?

[Gary]

Quite often, people post about West Coast Metric rubber being crap and Wolfsburg West's being superior. This is something I saw posted on another forum:

[Bart Dunn]

A lot if it is probably just ignorance that there are differences in composition of rubber, grades of steel, manufacturing tolerances, etc. All clutch disks are not created equal, but especially new guys don't get that. Years of driving and working on these cars will provide a better education than just about anything else. How many years have you been at this? I'm at 23 years or so, myself. Most people learn best by experience, in my opinion. One bad Brazilian fuel pump taught me a great deal.
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Not enough car seats fit into my:
'58 Beetle convertible
'58 Beetle sedan

[Amanda B. Reckonwit]

I blame the Greenies -

Rubber can be made to last forever (notwithstanding the choice between elasticity and longevity) but forever in a landfill is not acceptable.
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A discovery is said to be an accident meeting a prepared mind.
Albert von Szent-Gyorgyi (1893 - 1986)

[Tram]

No, it's the Wal*Mart mentality. 99% of the VW people I know go for the lowest price and the easiest part to install. This is the ONLY REASON that "Cal Look" got so popular, in my opinion. A $10 windshield seal and you don't even have to fart around with the chrome locking strip. Just throw it away. Boom! DONE!!! Booyah! ... EVEN THOUGH the correct German seal with the proper strip for the locking channel was only a few bucks more! (Those were the days).

Those of you who know me know that I have my feet planted it two different automotive restoration universes- Volkswagen and Mercedes- Benz. Aside from the fact that they're both German cars, the similarities end there. In the Mercedes world, Mercedes has a dedicated "oldtimer" division, where you can still get OEM parts for cars going back into the '40s. There isn't a huge aftermarket on these parts, because no Mercedes customers/ restorers will buy them. They want OEM. And, in the cases where OEM isn't available, NOBODY looks at price first. They look at quality. If you tried to market a Cal- Look window gasket for a 220SE Coupe or even a daily driver sedan, you'd never sell even one. Nobody would buy it.

The Mercedes philosophy is that there are two ways of doing something: The right way, or not at all. You never hear of a Mercedes owner ripping D-Jet fuel injection off an engine and installing a Weber Progressive. It just doesn't happen. Every so often some redneck will stuff a Chevy engine into a Benz. They'd better plan on keeping it for life because no one will touch it, no matter how well it's done. It's worthless.

It's just amazing to me that guys like Mario and companies like GEX can stay in business, but to the majority of the VW crowd, cost is king. I mean, look at these rubber parts. I learned the hard way. I put West Coast Metric rubber snubbers on the gates of a 1957 Single Cab I refurbed recently. Three days in the sun, and they were bubbling and cracking. THREE DAYS!!! So, I swapped them out for Wolfsburg West snubbers, which actually look correct and have the lower rear side snubbers, too. But now, I see what's posted above. BOTH of these companies marketed good products not too long ago.

This sort of crap is driving most of us in the industry crazy. You can't get anything decent anywhere. YET, when people come along with overseas connections who can get original rubber and parts, everyone talks about it but no- one steps up to the plate. We see it time and time again.

WHAT are we going to do about it? Why don't we turn our backs on the substandard parts suppliers and buy from the people who care enough to supply correct, high- quality parts?

I don't get it.

Yes, we can point the finger at VWOA and piss and moan that they "don't support the hobby". But, the problem is, the "hobby" doesn't want to pay the extra scratch for the correct original parts. So, I can't blame them. The aftermarket undercut the shit out of the dealer parts network years ago so the dealer said "fold". They ain't in business for their health. And then they're the bad guys for fighting to keep control of their logos and trademarks? Today it seems ludicrous because the big bad VWOA guys want to keep trademarks off the parts they'll no longer supply. But, I can tell you that in the '60s and '70s there were Ersatz VW parts all over the place out there that were complete counterfeit, right down to logos and part numbers. Sometimes, these parts were installed in cars that were still under warranty and failed, with catastrophic results. The customer would expect VW to pay for the repairs. Often, we knew that parts were counterfeit, but the customer would scream that the OEM logo was on it. In those days, the 24 month warranty and powertrain warranty followed the car, so it happened often that a car with substandard parts got back into the queue at the dealer, was sold as a "certified" used VW, and wound up with parts problems. VW lost a hell of a lot of profit because of the aftermarket in those days, and, once bitten- hard = twice shy. So there, as Paul Harvey used to say, is "the REST of the story".

It was a real nightmare.

So there you have it. You can do it cheap, or you can do it right... but thanks to the consumer, being able to do it "right" is almost already completely in the past.

Wake up and buy right!
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.

[a.wilson]

Amen! ^^
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Be kind to all critters. America's "H8TERZ" can drink sludgy used Motor Oil!


oemwolf

[The Sage]

And this opens the door to this question: How can we tell the difference anymore? I had learned that WW was quality, JC Whitney and CIP were not. I remember when buying my rubber seals for my last bus project, I had 3 different vendors, because not one carried the complete German OEM grade seals.

Based on this I am lead to believe that avoiding WW unless absolutely necessary is NOW what I should do?

I bet the guy who bought those rubber components ICY posted was willing to pay for quality, but was mislead.

And Tram, please keep in mind, that there is plenty of crap being made BY VWAG these days too.
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[Gary]

I have been going round and round trying to find stuff for my Super as well as two projects that are in the wings. What has irked me to no end is the people who tell me to "just buy the cheap stuff" and have the audacity to call me a tightwad when I refuse to do so. I want quality parts for my car that won't disintegrate at 5 months or 50 miles.

A great example is the fuel pumps. People come to the forums with a fuel pump issue and some clown is "advising" that he just some $10 unit from CIP1, JC Whitney, JBugs, or those clowns at Mid America. The same people who do so are the same ones who follow up with how that fuel pump "will only last 5 years, so what the hell". These same people don't seem to realize that the original VW fuel pumps have lasted well beyond 15 years before exhibiting any kind of problem and then pooh-pooh anyone who advises to rebuild the original or to seek out a rebuilt unit.

I searched high and low for the dampeners for the struts on the Super Beetles and was told not to bother replacing them. As luck would have it, I found a source who has OE and I bought them. They look as if I walked into the dealership in 1975 and got them, yet this same vendor complains that even though his prices for OE parts are lower than many of the other vendors, people won't buy.

I call it sheer stupidity and lack of foresight.
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West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)

[shano63]

When I did my car I made the mistake of pitching just about everything thinking I'll just get it new. I even through out all my 40 horse engine tin because it was rusty and all bent up. I ended up getting it off of a junk yard in cali, and it was rusty and bent up. I did get all of my rubber from West Coast Metric thinking again that they were one of the best in the biz. It's been a couple of years and the only problem I have is that I get wind noise through my vents. So maybe I was lucky with them. It's hard to find a decent place to go and get quality parts. If you aren't in the know you are going to get burned. I thought GEX was one of the leaders in the industry, I even bought 40 horse heads from them. Thank god my engine guy knew and didn't use them. I have learned the hard way what is good and what is crap.
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63 T1 Ragtop Gulf Blue
20 Toyota Corolla 6spd
22 Wrangler 6spd
78 F250 4x4 4spd

Chris

Take it as it comes-- Morrison

[Tram]

[oibovveroi]

[The Sage]

This is another part of the hobby I have found: The really good stuff is controlled by an elite mafia in the states... I imagine there is a limited supply of good oem, and you really need to work to find the quality stuff...
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Feel My Pain l Sage Ad World

[BWD]

[69 Jim]

Viva Viande!!

[Stripped66]

[Glenn]

[Lee.]

JohnnyPan Flaps walk into AutoZone and buys 4 new wheel cylinders because they are $6 each. Since he saves some money, he can buy some McDoubles for the whole family.

JohnnyPan takes his family around teh block, to MCD in his new, shiny 1974 bumpered bettle with the new Brazilian brakes.

JohnnyPanTram and his family somewhat skid and smash....... face and kids first into an 18 wheeler because his Taiwan Flaps brakes failed. The semi flips and all teh EMPI accessory parts are scattered around the roadway.

I'd love to hear a story like that in teh news.



--no offense to JohnnyPan.
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[luckystiff]

i've posted this several times before........

i live within 15 miles of SteeleRubber. they make VERY high quality seals. i've talked to a guy there about vw products. his first comment was the vw people he knew would be to cheap to buy their quality products. with the GOOD suppliers in the business going down that may not be true any more. it's been a while since i've talked to them maybe it's tiem to spend an afternoon down there again.

but yes most people look for the cheapest alternative. sometimes out of necessity. most of the time out of cheapness...ken....
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ITMC
Secret Service

[Tram]

[Viande]

The OEMs still are making quite a few parts. However for how long who knows. Honestly it's not worth it. The majority of VW owners apparently lack basic math skills. They somehow believe buying a part at half the cost of the original is less expensive. Never mind that cheap part will on average provide 20% of the life of the original it's cheaper now. So 20 dollars for the OEM part that will provide another 20-30 years is more expensive than the cheap part you have to replace 5-10 times to provide the same time span. We all know 10+10+10+10+10 is less expensive than 20, right? Tram tried to buy quality only to have to repurchase the same parts 3 days later. He is unfortunately stuck as the OEM will not manufacture these unless there is an order large enough to make it worth the costs. The tooling is still there, the technology certainly is still there. The only part missing is enough educated consumers. One of the OEMs I buy rubber goods that is still supplying VWaG is a case in point. They have the original molds but are not making use of them in quite a few cases. Instead the consumer not capable of math buys the cheap parts and the OEM's sales drops so he quits making the parts. It's just that simple. Much like Bosch is no longer going to be manufacturing alternators so goes the rest. They are not ceasing production without good reason. No business stops manufacturing what is profitable. It is the consumer and their need for instant gratification albeit at the loss of quality which provides for this loss. When you reward a vendor by purchasing cheap parts you are ensuring there will be no option in the future to do it right. Then when you realize that replacing parts over and over and over is not saving you money it's too late. The OEM's in Germany are proud of what they manufactured and most of the ones I deal with would love to make these parts available again. However they are not charities and are not going to manufacture parts only to have them gather dust until people learn to do the math. It's not the manufacturers fault, it's not retailers fault, it's yours. When you demand parts built to a price rather than for quality you get what you deserve. So we as consumers are the problem and only we have the solution.

I personally am quite capable with math. I only use OEM whenever that option is available. To this end I did seek out the OEMs and am using the best on my cars and without issue. The only downside is OEMs have minimums. However, I don't have to worry about whether the part will fit. It's made on the very equipment and to the same specs as the one I am replacing. How could you ask for more. Do it once and forget about it. My only mistake was thinking there were still people like me that choose quality over a cheap price. So I went and purchased what I needed thinking I would sell the rest and give 10% to the samba and take 15% for my time and effort. This would allow me to bring even more in and try to make all these great parts available to more and more people. Wrong. I have not sold 10% of what I brought in. Even when I threw up my hands and decided to just give the parts away I had exactly 2 sales. So even with OEM and NOS selling for half of what anyone else lists them for there was essentially nothing. Simply baffling. One of the strong points in our favorite little cars was the quality. They were inexpensive yet used very high quality parts. Had VW chose to use the parts the majority buy today they never would have made it. They would have gone the way of the Yugo and just disappeared. The difference today is quality manufacturers are not only competing with China and their slave wages they are fighting the governments. There is a member here that had to move his shop out of California. They don't like manufacturing it's bad for the environment and evil. So more and more move manufacturing overseas. This allows for great profits but unfortunately it also allows for fewer jobs. This in turn provides for fewer customers. Who would've ever guessed.

One only has to read the forums to see just how fun the cheap parts actually are. How do I make this work...why do these widow seals leak...this part doesn't fit now what do I do now...etc etc etc. We see it everyday, people buy cheap then have to re-purchase to get a part that fits, functions or lasts. Then you have the morons pimping the retailers of these crap parts to unsuspecting visitors. If you dare try to advise them that there are actual quality parts still available you get chastised. Hell I have been called a racist and accused of "spending someone else's money" for recommending OEM and quality parts to people. Forget that the parts actually fit and will last, they know where to get a cheap part that almost fits, almost functions and should last a year or so. That of course is the wiser option. Thankfully there are a few people out there which have provided a glimmer of hope. I have accepted like those in the past that tried to provide the best, people just don't get it.

To my detractors that can not, will not or just refuse to accept that this Walmart mentality is not conducive to their long term financial well being, Good luck...
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Bobby
New Items In Stock, NOS & OEM Seals,Parts and Terminals
My Feedback Here

The bitter taste of poor quality lingers long after the joy of the cheap price fades away.

[LeviMan2001]

I'm 16 I have currently in my wallet $25. My parents have agreed to help with funding on my project, but thats pushin it. I need to save as much as I can for the motor (which currently doesn't even exsist). Why do (will) I buy the cheap stuff? well hopefully I won't, but If i must it's because, well, it's cheap.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=366056 - My '73 Super Build. 2332cc, 16" Fuchs