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Rear Wheel Bearing Replacement - 74 Super Beetle
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brice
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:18 pm    Post subject: Rear Wheel Bearing Replacement - 74 Super Beetle Reply with quote

My road to replacing the rear wheel bearings has been a rocky one. The rear passenger wheel started making a rapid thumping noise while driving, that only got worse on the way home. So I bought 4 rear wheel bearings from Bughaus (for both sides - 2x inner, 2x outers -- which the sit to their site). My Beetle is a 1974 super.

According to my Bentley (page 14 of Lubrication and Maintenance), you must remove the drive shafts. I was able to do this, and needed a M8 12 point tool (which comes in a $9.99 great neck kit from autozone -- a kit w/o any driver, just bits). My CV boots were torn and worn, so I'll replace all 4. Maybe the CVs too once I get to examining them.

Now; with the drive shafts off, I took off the drum and backing plate... and banged with a hammer on the axel spline. I thought the axel would pop through.. it didn't.... but a bearing seemed to move forward. I was able to pull this out, and then clean out a bunch of grease around the spline housing. I can't find another bearing in there.

Is there supposed to be another one? Maybe I have a different year's axels?

Also, should I be hitting the spline with a hammer to try to force it out through the rear end (towards transmission, through where the drife shaft connects)??

Lastly, it appears that none of the bearings I purchased match the one I was able to pull out. The new bearing has a skinner inner race, and larger exposed bearings.

Nowhere in my Bentley Manual (Type 1 Service Manual, 1970 through 1979) is the procedure for repacking and removing rear wheel bearings found. Just a hint at it in Lube & Maintenance section, and instructions on removing drive shafts in Rear Axel & Transmission.

If anyone has any pointers -- I would greatly appreciate it!

Attached are some pictures to better describe my post:


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Axel Spline (which I hit on the tip with a hammer to try to force it backwards towards transmission).

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Rear axel housing, driveshafts removed.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Side view of axel spline.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
New bearing on left, old on right.Note the difference. Is this a problem?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
The second [outter or inner??] rear wheel bearing I received. No idea where to put this one... Bearings are Korean, brand F.A.G.

Thanks,

~ Brice
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gevmage
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Outer bearing on each side is a roller bearing. Inner bearing (nearer the transmission) is a ball bearing. To remove the ball bearing, you have to remove the circlip holding it in, then tap it out with a punch from the inside (only putting pressure on the outer race).

The newer roller bearings have a different roller assembly. However, the thing you picture with the roller bearing on the right isn't the inner race, it's one of the spacers.

I have a series of blog posts when I replaced my rear bearings (and brakes). The photos may be of use to you:
http://www.craigsteffen.net/blog/labels/brakes.php

However, on a second look, the most important posts weren't labelled right. Here they are individually:
http://www.craigsteffen.net/blog/2008/01/re-commencing-countdown.php
http://www.craigsteffen.net/blog/2008/01/exploding-diagram.php
http://www.craigsteffen.net/blog/2008/02/four-on-floor-finally.php

Here's what you really want: a sort of exploded view of the parts of the rear bearing assembly:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

It helps to the upperleftmost and lowerright most things that look like rings are spacers, as is the long tube in the center. It may help to visualize it if you think about that the stub shaft is wrapped tightly by 5 ring or tube-like things sandwiched together between the base of the stub axle at the inner (transmission) end and the axle nut at the outer end. From inner to outer it's the inner spacer, the ball bearing inner race, the sleeve spacer (which sits inside the grease reservoir between the bearings), the roller bearing race, and then the outer spacer.

Hope this helps!
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Rebuilt brakes, engine top end, 34PICT-4; now runs like a top at 75mph
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in8angst
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:20 pm    Post subject: Rear Bearings Reply with quote

www.craigsteffen.net

Hi, friend,

Just spent a few minutes to locate the above, to come back in here, and, lo, Craig is already johnny on the spot. Thanks, Craig. Laughing
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gevmage
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear Bearings Reply with quote

in8angst wrote:
www.craigsteffen.net

Hi, friend,

Just spent a few minutes to locate the above, to come back in here, and, lo, Craig is already johnny on the spot. Thanks, Craig. Laughing

Embarassed

thanks! It took me a few minutes to dig that up; I apparently failed to label three posts in a row "brakes" in blogger. I knew I'd taken the pseudo-exploded diagram photo, because I thought it was kind of cool. That should make it more clear. When you're digging around in 10+ year old grease, it's hard to tell the hoosits from the whatsits from the whachamacallits.

Now to get back to my actual working on my car. The thermostat just went in; with luck the engine will be running tomorrow!
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brice
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys, thanks for the tips! I've been researching this thoroughly. My issue is getting to the inner bearing. I believe to do this I need to

1. Beat the stub axel out.
Do I beat it from the outside to inside? E.g. hit the tip of the stub towards the transmission? Mine is not moving. I have banged the hell out of it. Is anything holding it in place? (CV driveshafe is out!)

2. Remove the circlip holing the bearing in.

3. Beat the inner bearing out.

I assume I hit it from the outside of the housing, after removing the outer bearing??


Thanks!

~ Brice
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gevmage
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brice wrote:
Hey guys, thanks for the tips! I've been researching this thoroughly. My issue is getting to the inner bearing. I believe to do this I need to

1. Beat the stub axel out.

Yep. Basically the stub axle is being gripped by the inner race of the ball bearing.

Quote:

Do I beat it from the outside to inside? E.g. hit the tip of the stub towards the transmission?

You got it. I've read people talking about doing this with a stubborn axle. Don't hit the tip of the axle directly with a hammer; you'll musrhoom it. I think I remember people saying that if it's really stubborn, hitting a piece of wood that's against the axle tip won't work either. I think I heard someone put a very large pointed punch in the middle of the top of the axle and hitting that directly with a hammer is what finally got theirs to move.

Quote:

I have banged the hell out of it. Is anything holding it in place? (CV driveshafe is out!)

Other than friction/old grease/general stickiness on the ball bearing inner race, no.

Quote:

2. Remove the circlip holing the bearing in.

3. Beat the inner bearing out.

Yup.

Quote:

I assume I hit it from the outside of the housing, after removing the outer bearing??

Yes.
Axle out, inner grease seal and inner spacer out (inner spacer will most likely come out attached to the axle).
Clean the worst of the grease out of the inner chamber so you can see what you're doing.

If you look at the ball bearing from the wheel-side of the assembly, there are two small slots in the rim to get at the outer race of the ball bearing from behind. Tap it out with a punch, alternating from one side to the other (there are two slots, opposite each other). Swear because you realize that you forgot to take the circlip out (this step is traditional), go around to the inner side, remove the circlip, go back around to the outside and keep tapping on the outer race to get it out.
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Rebuilt brakes, engine top end, 34PICT-4; now runs like a top at 75mph
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brice
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Criag,

You're the man. Thanks for the direction!

~ Brice
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johneliot
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brice,
Turn the castle nut around and thread it on until it sits flush with the end of the sub axle. This will help protect the threads as you whack it with a hand sledge. After you get the big circlip off the inner side, get a long flat punch. After you clear all the grease out of the housing, you should see some grooves that will give you some room to tap the inner bearing out.
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brice
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was able to get the axel out. Ended up buying a 3lb pound sledge, and using the castle nut technique described by john.

Now -- I am totally stumped re: removing the circlip. I have snap ring pliers... but don't quite see how to remove it. The metal ridge that the inner grease seal rides on prevevents access to the holes in the circlip. I presume I'm supposed to squeeze the circlip ends together, and twise it out??

Any pointers here?

Also -- the inner grease seal was totally dry rotted and stuck to the metal ridge. I had to pull it apart and scrape it off using a chisel. There's still some rough areas. Any tips on the best way to clean up the old seal?

Thanks!

~ Brice
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johneliot
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Make sure you get all the grease out and off. It may just look like something is in the way but it's probably just old hard grease. It is a stiff circlip. You have the right idea. Squeeze it together and get one end up and out of the groove. When you get about 1/3 of the ring out, the rest will come out easy. Use some 0000 steel wool and either mineral spirits or acetone to get the rest of the old seal off.
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BugMan114
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

when the axle is hard to come out, i use a large axe i have. not sure how much it weighs, but its friggin huge. anyhoo, when an axle won't come out, i lean a big old piece of flat plate against the axle, and basically give it one hell of a whack. i learned the hardway, to place a piece of plywood between the axle and tranny, cause it will usually shoot out at great velocity. Twisted Evil
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1974 Super Beetle: Custom resto in progress
1972 Super Beetle: Daily Driver
1971 Std. Beetle w/ 1929 Mercedes Benz Gazelle kit
1960 Baja Bug
1969 Baja Bug
Sand Rail- Homemade
Sand Rail- FUBAR

Aircooled Airheads

Why the hell do they call it a gland nut. its obviously a big fat bolt!!!
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Steenkbug
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually used a 'puller' to get my axles out. (The one with 2 - 3 claws) this put direct pressure on the axle stub, and pushed it right out. I have both sets of bearings replaced, and I just need to reassemble them. Ive been procrastinating on this way too long... Smile
-Me
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brice
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johneliot wrote:
Make sure you get all the grease out and off. It may just look like something is in the way but it's probably just old hard grease. It is a stiff circlip. You have the right idea. Squeeze it together and get one end up and out of the groove. When you get about 1/3 of the ring out, the rest will come out easy. Use some 0000 steel wool and either mineral spirits or acetone to get the rest of the old seal off.


John,

You were absolutely right. Being the complete numbskull that I am, I mistook the old grease seal as a part of the hub. The old grease seal has a metal ring in it (not the spring, but a 1/4" ring of metal!) which I

a) spent a lot of time chiseling away the grease seal's rubber from and -WORSE YET -
b) spent a ton of time and had much difficulty in finally bending the the hell out of my circlip to pull it up and over this old grease seal ring.

OUCH.

Does anyone have a spare circlip?

Smile

Hopefully someone will find this post && not do what I did.

Thanks,

~ Brice
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Steenkbug
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

spent a ton of time and had much difficulty in finally bending the the hell out of my circlip to pull it up and over this old grease seal ring.

OUCH.

Does anyone have a spare circlip?

Smile

Hopefully someone will find this post && not do what I did.

Thanks,

~ Brice


I did the same thing. In fact, I mangled the hell out of my trailing arms and had to dremel down some of the bearing housings. Check your local VW shop. They should carry the circlips, if not I believe Ive seen them online too.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:39 pm    Post subject: updated links with bearing housing pictures Reply with quote

I upgraded blogging software Christmas 2009. Doing that removed the individual posts that I likd to above.

I've just gone through and put back the archives. So the individual links above still won't work, but the posts still exist, embedded in the monthly summary posts. Here are new links to replace the above ones:

http://www.craigsteffen.net/blog_archive/2008_01_01_archive.php

http://www.craigsteffen.net/blog_archive/2008_02_01_archive.php

Please let me know if I've missed any photos that anyone needs.
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SCARE CROW
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:12 pm    Post subject: WHAT DOES THE CLIP LOOK LIKE HOLDING THE INNER BEARING IN Reply with quote

WE LOOKED AND WHIPED ALL GREASE OUT OF THE SHAFT AND STILL CAN'T SEE A C CLIP WOULD LOVE A PICTURE OF THE AXLE SHAFT TO SEE WHAT WE ARE MISSING. WOULD LIKE TO GET IT TOGETHER SO I CAN GO FOR A RIDE ON OUR VW TRIKE. ITS A 76 VW BEETLE REAREND ON THE TRIKE, GOT THE BEARING JUST NEED TO GET IT IN. Confused Sad Question
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:24 pm    Post subject: Re: WHAT DOES THE CLIP LOOK LIKE HOLDING THE INNER BEARING I Reply with quote

SCARE CROW wrote:
WE LOOKED AND WHIPED ALL GREASE OUT OF THE SHAFT AND STILL CAN'T SEE A C CLIP WOULD LOVE A PICTURE OF THE AXLE SHAFT TO SEE WHAT WE ARE MISSING.


You can see lots of pictures of rear bearing dis-assembly and re-assembly on a 1972 Super on these archive pages:

http://www.craigsteffen.net/blog_archive/2008_01_01_archive.php

http://www.craigsteffen.net/blog_archive/2008_02_01_archive.php

http://www.craigsteffen.net/blog_archive/2008_03_01_archive.php

Here's the picture of the inner (ball) bearing installed with its circlip. This is from the INSIDE of the bearing (looking from where the transmission is).
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

So are you trying to assemble the rear bearings and don't know where the pieces go? Or are you trying to dis-assemble the bearings and you can't find the circlip to get the ball bearing out?
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drgeoscott
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some new pictures for some clarity. The others appear to have gone missing.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
I use steel wool to clean the bearing carrier.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
I tap it in with a hard rubber mallet and then use a socket or punch to drive it home.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Make sure it gets past the circlip slot.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
I put the top of the ring in the bearing carrier and then squeeze the circlip shut with the ring pliers. Once started I just push it pack with a screwdriver until seated.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Tap the seal in and then drive it home with a socket. It doesn't have to be the size of the seal, just large and smooth. Work your way around until it seats against the circlip.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Make sure to put your spacer with the convex side down onto your stub.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
The stub is ready to be put in. I drive it in with a soft mallet. Using a block of wood and a hammer would work to.

Hope all goes well. Spin that hub and make sure the bearing is good before continuing. I have had noisy/bad bearings right out of the box.


Last edited by drgeoscott on Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:38 am; edited 3 times in total
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68IHscout Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drgeoscott wrote:
Some new pictures for some clarity. The others appear to have gone missing.

http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=1184744023...6486221430
that link didnt work for me
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a great layout of the parts...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=378205&highlight=rear+axle+play

A great thread!


http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...p;start=20

I'll include this one just to make sure you got it!

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=366794

Jim
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