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Mr. Okrasa Original Old Speed
Joined: May 20, 2000 Posts: 726 Location: Eastside, Costa Mesa. So. Califas...Loco's ;-)
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:22 am Post subject: Denzel eng. build up |
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After waiting several months for SCAT to have their forged chromoly "Superlite" crankshafts made-up,
I finally have the bottom end and ready to start assembling my Denzel bottom end..... Cheers!
_________________
See my Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/okrasa/
1959 VW Karmann Ghia Coupe / Bamboo-Green / Denzel 1300cc / OG. owner, paint
Denzel engine running. See this link: https://youtu.be/DgUlsQDTXTE
VW www.Okrasa.com
356 www.PreA356.com
Last edited by Mr. Okrasa on Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:57 am; edited 2 times in total |
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grueni Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2008 Posts: 582 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:53 am Post subject: |
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wow..high end in material and also in money
whats the plan for the engine in cc and all the stuff?
that will become exciting
beautiful |
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Mr. Okrasa Original Old Speed
Joined: May 20, 2000 Posts: 726 Location: Eastside, Costa Mesa. So. Califas...Loco's ;-)
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:01 am Post subject: |
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grueni wrote: |
wow..high end in material and also in money
whats the plan for the engine in cc and all the stuff?
that will become exciting
beautiful |
Dont want to divulge too much information at the moment. Im building two of these at the same time
and the owner of one does NOT want any info. given out on his Denzel engine build. Cheers! _________________
See my Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/okrasa/
1959 VW Karmann Ghia Coupe / Bamboo-Green / Denzel 1300cc / OG. owner, paint
Denzel engine running. See this link: https://youtu.be/DgUlsQDTXTE
VW www.Okrasa.com
356 www.PreA356.com |
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grueni Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2008 Posts: 582 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:30 am Post subject: |
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but if one is yours nene kist kidding. it's more than enough to see that rarity build up
have fun with it! |
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sled Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005 Posts: 6171
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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oh man, one of my favorite engines. Are those DCM-2's?
looking forward to updates. _________________ drive your split. |
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TomSimon Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2004 Posts: 749
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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This will be a fun build to watch... there's not many Denzel heads around to be had, that pair looks real clean |
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Teeroy Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2003 Posts: 3682 Location: Eastern WA
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:00 pm Post subject: Denzel eng. build up |
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What strokes is Scat offering? Are they 36hp VW mains or 356 Porsche? _________________ Pres. Rivercity VW Club www.rcvwclub.org
Founder Derr Wheat Panzers (DWP)
ARR #3
www.autosportsnorthwest.org |
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gimmesomeshelter Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2004 Posts: 1468 Location: San Carlos, CA
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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Hello-
They offer a 74mm stroke with 55mm mains (356 SC/912). You can, however, have a crank custom ground.
Paul _________________ "I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned."
Richard Feynman |
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Mr. Okrasa Original Old Speed
Joined: May 20, 2000 Posts: 726 Location: Eastside, Costa Mesa. So. Califas...Loco's ;-)
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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gimmesomeshelter wrote: |
Hello-
They offer a 74mm stroke with 55mm mains (356 SC/912). You can, however, have a crank custom ground.
Paul |
Paul is right! I have (3) that SCAT "made" with 50mm mains and (2) that have 55mm mains.
I got a small discount for buying (5) SCAT "Superlite" crankshafts at once...... Cheers! _________________
See my Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/okrasa/
1959 VW Karmann Ghia Coupe / Bamboo-Green / Denzel 1300cc / OG. owner, paint
Denzel engine running. See this link: https://youtu.be/DgUlsQDTXTE
VW www.Okrasa.com
356 www.PreA356.com |
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gimmesomeshelter Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2004 Posts: 1468 Location: San Carlos, CA
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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Hello-
While I understand that installing a 55mm crank into a 36HP case has its challenges, it also has its rewards. Stiffness (torsional rigidity) is proportional to the 4th power of the diameter. All other things being equal, a 55mm crank is 46% stiffer than a 50mm crank. Not bad for a 10% increase in diameter.
Paul _________________ "I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned."
Richard Feynman |
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TomSimon Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2004 Posts: 749
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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gimmesomeshelter wrote: |
Hello-
a 55mm crank is 46% stiffer than a 50mm crank. Not bad for a 10% increase in diameter... |
unfortunately that's not the entire story... torsional rigitity is one part of the equation. There is also bending where the cheeks meet the main journal, and cheek meets the rod journal. The larger the rod journals and main journals and less the stroke, the stronger the crank. This overlap, often refered to as 'lap' in crank grinders parlance, is a big deal in 3-main bearing cranks like a VW. Who's to say which one matters most, or if we should care at relatively low power levels
IMO if a guy has a choice, the bigger the diameter the better, to the point in which you now weaken the case but alignboring it to accomodate those larger main bearings then there is the problem of paying $400 for a set of Porsche main bearings |
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Mr. Okrasa Original Old Speed
Joined: May 20, 2000 Posts: 726 Location: Eastside, Costa Mesa. So. Califas...Loco's ;-)
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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Tom Simon wrote: |
gimmesomeshelter wrote: |
Hello-
a 55mm crank is 46% stiffer than a 50mm crank. Not bad for a 10% increase in diameter... |
unfortunately that's not the entire story... torsional rigitity is one part of the equation. There is also bending where the cheeks meet the main journal, and cheek meets the rod journal. The larger the rod journals and main journals and less the stroke, the stronger the crank. This overlap, often refered to as 'lap' in crank grinders parlance, is a big deal in 3-main bearing cranks like a VW. Who's to say which one matters most, or if we should care at relatively low power levels
IMO if a guy has a choice, the bigger the diameter the better, to the point in which you now weaken the case but alignboring it to accomodate those larger main bearings then there is the problem of paying $400 for a set of Porsche main bearings |
Granted! I agree with Tom. These "little" engines that are being built for the street will never or hardly ever see RPM blasts of over 5500 rpms. The lifter/cam/valve spring design in the 25hp/36hp engine was never intended to go beyond 5500 rpm's safely so unless you do something with those "weak links" first, then I would worry about what size the crank journals are.....In my 35+ years of building these early engines, I have never had a crankshaft break either stock, stroked or billet. If you are experiencing broken crankshafts then something else is wrong?!?! These engines are NOT producing the HP that the drag racers are laying down at the strip.
Another note: When you machine the magnesium case for the larger 55mm main bearings, you are weakening the block. Remember, the S-90/SC
and 912 Porsche engines all use ALUMINUM blocks which were designed to use the larger 55mm main bearings. Cheers! Mr. Okrasa _________________
See my Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/okrasa/
1959 VW Karmann Ghia Coupe / Bamboo-Green / Denzel 1300cc / OG. owner, paint
Denzel engine running. See this link: https://youtu.be/DgUlsQDTXTE
VW www.Okrasa.com
356 www.PreA356.com |
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gimmesomeshelter Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2004 Posts: 1468 Location: San Carlos, CA
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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Mr. O'
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In my 35+ years of building these early engines, I have never had a crankshaft break |
Is there a common point(s) of failure for these engines?
Paul _________________ "I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned."
Richard Feynman |
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Jake Raby Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2003 Posts: 7433 Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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If you aren't breaking parts you aren't making enough power.
I have a 3 piece 36HP crankshaft on my trophy shelf. _________________ Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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Mr. Okrasa Original Old Speed
Joined: May 20, 2000 Posts: 726 Location: Eastside, Costa Mesa. So. Califas...Loco's ;-)
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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Jake Raby wrote: |
If you aren't breaking parts you aren't making enough power.
I have a 3 piece 36HP crankshaft on my trophy shelf. |
Yeah!........I know. _________________
See my Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/okrasa/
1959 VW Karmann Ghia Coupe / Bamboo-Green / Denzel 1300cc / OG. owner, paint
Denzel engine running. See this link: https://youtu.be/DgUlsQDTXTE
VW www.Okrasa.com
356 www.PreA356.com |
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sled Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005 Posts: 6171
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Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:18 am Post subject: |
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Any updates? _________________ drive your split. |
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Mr. Okrasa Original Old Speed
Joined: May 20, 2000 Posts: 726 Location: Eastside, Costa Mesa. So. Califas...Loco's ;-)
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