What of Bar's Leak "head gasket repair"?

[wehrbüchse]

Sorry for the lame first post. My name's Box, and I'm new to Vanagon ownership. Well, not entirely. When I was 16, my parents divorced, and I got my stepfather's obsessively preserved, essentially mint 79 bus. I adored it. Then I went to juvie for something I didn't do, and when I got out, my mom had traded my bus in on an 83 Corolla, arguing that in my bus, I would be recognized by local ghetto thugs and shot at. She got $700 for my bus, and I had been turning down offers of 5Gs. I was heart broken. The next year she would donate my almost-complete He-Man collection and a decent Transformers collection to Salvation Army just for good balance.

Anyway, I and one of my housemates each got craigslist Vanagons in the last few months, and his just suddenly started dripping, losing all coolant within a couple of days.

I've read you guys' excellent, informative debates about Bar's Leak, and in each, just when I'm convinced not to go there, someone seemingly credible chimes in with an argument to the effect that it's no big deal.

What I'm wondering is: what is your opinion of a product I haven't seen discussed here: Bar's Leak "head gasket repair." I was just down at NAPA and they had five different BL products. One, the "heavy duty" was a liquid full of pellets, the others seemed to be just liquid, and one, HEAD GASKET REPAIR, requires that the system be flushed of all antifreeze. Is there any way this stuff can be used in a way in which I won't clog my bro's radiator?

He's not too interested in doing it right the first time (swapping the gasket, doing repairs to heads), so what BL product should we use if we are gonna take the gamble?

Thanks bros.

Box

[Dogpilot]

If your going to add anything, you may want to consider the Subaru coolant conditioner. It is about $3 from a Subaru dealer. It works fairly well and is safe for boxer aluminum engines. Subaru apparently had leak issues with theirs as well and sell this product to keep them sealed tight. It is not actually produced by them, but marketed by them under their label.

Many folks have had some success with it here.
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Geology with a Syncro rocks!
86 Syncro Westy AKA "The Bughunter"
98 Disco I
08 Range Rover SC
08 VW Rabbit S
1951 O-1G

[sc-surfer]

FWIW,

My girlfriend's heater core started leaking. Out Mechanic wanted $1500 or so to pull the dash and replace it. We were a little strapped at the time so he offered to try Bars Leak figuring that at worst we'd still have to replace the core. As a side note, the car, a 2001 Golf with 200K wasn't really worth spending a ton of $$ on.
Anyway, we said sure, try it. 3 months later there has been no more fluid leaking out, the car smells normal again, and we have had no other issues.
I'm sure it's not a permanent fix, but it saved us a ton of $$.

Your milage may vary.
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Catalog of Vans at SDM 2010
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[Derek Cobb]

I used it in my Jeep and it's held for over 50k miles and 5 years.

[wehrbüchse]

Thanks for responding! I saw extensive mention of that Subaru stuff in one of the other BL threads, but nobody was really sure whether it was intended to plug leaks or just help prevent them. Another guy said that it's just the same stuff as B'sL.

I guess I'll go read about BL's "head gasket repair" at other forums and report back here. Till then, do those of you who've tried BL prefer one formulation over another?

Thanks again!

box

[tencentlife]

The Suby stuff is relabelled Holt's Radweld (a Honeywell product):

http://www.holtsauto.com/products/group/repair-and-maintenance/cooling-repair-systems

I think the controversy over its use, and use of some of these products, is based on some outdated thinking and, more than anything, what amounts to superstition. This isn't the pasty metallic glop that constituted some old-school cooling system patchup products; some of those are still sold and I would definitely avoid their use, there is sufficient evidence that they can and do cause restrictions in small radiator and heater core passages along with other unintended effects. But people lump this class of products in with that class, when they are very different in the way they act.

I used two bottles of the Holt's/Suby product in a wbx cooling system, not for leak stoppage but because I was told it had conditioning, surfactant and anticorrosive properties as well. I never saw the "official" explanation until just now when I went looking for the Holts website, that it does also have those properties, but I had been told so and believed it. Anyway after a year of use I removed and opened up the top end on that engine and I saw no effects of the product that would lead me to think it could have any adverse effects on the parts of the cooling system people typically worry about, the inner cores of radiator and heat exchangers. I saw some granular goo collected in stagnating areas that I concluded were old silicates that the Dexcool I use had stripped out of the cooling system. This had, as far as I can surmise, nothing to do with the Radweld being in the mix, unless it also bolstered silicates and the Dexcool prevented their adhesion, another possibility. Dexcoll is nown to strip old silicate from surfaces , though, so I'm pretty sure that accounted for the goo. At any rate there has been no harm to the overall cooling system, it has gone on functioning normally for two more years of hard use since then in an '87 daily driver, with the original radiator and front heater cores.

There are plenty of other anecdotal accounts of people using the same product to remedy weeping water jacket seals with success, and no reported adverse effects that I have ever read.

Based on that I would not hesitate to recommend use of this product to seal weeps or small leaks at wbx water jacket seals, or even leaky heat exchangers. In the absence of solid evidence to the contrary I will continue to believe so, as there is to me a substantial body of evidence that it helps to seal minor leaks without negative consequences.
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[wehrbüchse]

Man, that is so what I wanted to hear. I know that MMMV, but I'm gonna go for it and advise my bro to 'do it right' down the road when he has the time.

Profuse thanks,

Box


EDIT

I looked at 'where to buy' on that Holt's website, and was perplexed to see that in the 'Americas' section, the US is not listed. Is this stuff no longer for sale in the US, or merely sold under a different name? It is a UK product.

Anybody know?

Thx

[insyncro]

[morymob]

I think Barrs is in the catagory with oatmeal,cornmeal,pepper and for serious leaks a couple spoons of rice. Bring eng up to boiling point and let set until ready to eat.

[funagon]

[purplepeopleeater]

Good info, I'm going to try this!

My motor only has 47k on the long block, I have new rad and coolent lines...but I have no records of my heatercores being replaced, will pickup some of this and try it.

[marklee]

have a look at Kalimex K seal, I have seen this repair a core plug that was spraying like a fountain
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[larrytrk]

+1 on the Subi/Holts. Added 1 bottle when I had a head gasket drip.
Over a year and 14K with no leaks, even after 2 coolant changes due to accident and burst H pipe.
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[tencentlife]

In case it isn't clear, I'm only talking about the Radweld/Suby stuff.

When I went into the Suby parts dept the guy said they were just giving it away. I said I'm not here for my Suby, it's for my VW and he gave me two bottles anyway. He said that one bottle was intended to treat two gallons of coolant. A Vanagon contains almost four gallons.
_________________
Shop for unique and useful Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
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also available at VanCafe.com!

Please don't PM here, I will not reply.

Experience is death to doctrine.

[wehrbüchse]

Firstly, I gotta say that it is rare to get such excellent input on a forum, so I do appreciate this, and am glad I found thesamba.

I hate to be a pesky noob, I just want to be clear. The Subaru parts counter guy just insisted to me on the horn that the blue bottle Subie coolant conditioner WILL NOT fix a leak, it WILL NOT act like Bar's Leak, that it is merely a "conditioner" meant to be added any time coolant is added. Maybe he didn't know WTF he was talking about.

This vanagon's pressurized coolant tank has dripped empty. Tomorrow morning, I'm going down to the Subie dealer and picking up two bottles of Subaru Coolant Conditioner, and adding 1.5 bottles once I've poured a visible amount of coolant in the pressurized tank. Then I'm going to drive it around for five or so minutes, check things out, and add coolant if necessary. Am I missing anything? Definitely no on the Bar's Leak HD, Bar's Leak standard, etc.?

Thanks bros, sorry to beat this dead horse so long.

[Texxxxx]

When I bought my Syncro it was leaking about a tablespoon per side per day. 2 bottles of blue suby and it hasn't leaked since.
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'85 GL w/2.1L "The Tardis"
It's A Vanagon Day

[funagon]

[wehrbüchse]

Funagon-

Excellent post. And I'm siting here wondering how I call myself a non-retard when I still haven't determined for certain where the leak is coming from. The drip was straight from the bottom of the engine, and after reading an online article about notorious vanagon head gasket failures, I got ahead of myself.

The first thing I'll do tomorrow is determine the true location of the leak. Would be nice if it were a hose.

Thanks!

Box

[tencentlife]

Best advice i've read here in awhile.
_________________
Shop for unique and useful Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
also available at VanCafe.com!

Please don't PM here, I will not reply.

Experience is death to doctrine.

[camerahunter]

Me too.
Does anyone know where to buy this Subaru Coolant Conditioner online?

Thank you,

David
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