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donny1973
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Joined: November 21, 2008
Posts: 317
Location: Palm Beach, FL
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 Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:04 pm Post subject: Timing Marks |
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Again, I did a search and have found conflicting information. Below are pics of the original crank pulley on my '68 vert. As you can see, there are three grooves on the inside edge and a white "0" stamped on the outside face, but no corresponding marks visible. According to my owner's manual and Bentley book, the timing specs for the '68 1500 is TDC. Based on what I've read here, the groove on the far right is 10 degrees BTDC, the one in the middle is 7.5 degrees BTDC and the grove on the left is 5 degrees ATDC. Is this accurate and if so, where is TDC on this pulley?
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Cusser
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Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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Leftmost V-groove is TDC. Moving to the right in your photo of your '68, 7.5 degrees BTDC, and one most on the right is 10 degrees BTDC.
Now, the photo below shows a later model pulley, with left-most being 5 ATDC. Note how that left mark is further away than on yours.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297
Last edited by Cusser on Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:34 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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runamoc 
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Joined: June 19, 2006
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Location: 37.5N 77.1W
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| Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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The groove on the left is TDC, 0 degrees, not 5 ATDC.
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chiprodriguez
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Joined: June 10, 2007
Posts: 273
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| Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| runamoc wrote: |
| The groove on the left is TDC, 0 degrees, not 5 ATDC. |
No, Cusser is right. 5% degrees ATDC when the TDC mark is on the front part of the pulley. (more of a u shape than a groove). On the earlier pulleys, the left most groove would be TDC without the u shaped TDC mark on the front part of the pulley. |
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runamoc
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Location: 37.5N 77.1W
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:50 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| No, Cusser is right |
Never implied he wasn't. We both replied at about the same time to the OP's question. My 'answer' was directed towards the OP, not a 'correction' to Casser.
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Daily driver: '69 Baja owned 45 yrs - Plan B: '72 Ghia
Yard Art: 2 Sandrails
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donny1973
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Joined: November 21, 2008
Posts: 317
Location: Palm Beach, FL
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:28 am Post subject: |
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| Cusser wrote: |
Leftmost V-groove is TDC. Moving to the right in your photo of your '68, 7.5 degrees BTDC, and one most on the right is 10 degrees BTDC.
Now, the photo below shows a later model pulley, with left-most being 5 ATDC. Note how that left mark is further away than on yours.
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Thanks for clearing this up guys. Comparing the pic Cusser posted with my pulley I can see the difference. Makes sense now.
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Who is John Galt?
The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.
'64 Bug
'73 Thing
'68 Vert Body Off Resto: Click here |
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Cusser
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Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 33200
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:59 am Post subject: |
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runamoc posted a hair after me, that's all. Glad the pulley marks make sense now.
Remember, on these VWs one must never just assume that a part (or an engine) is original to the vehicle.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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68IHscout
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Joined: March 10, 2010
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Location: santa ana ca
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Now that this makes sense , id like some help, I have a 74sb svda , now the po rebuilt the engine as far as I know , but the timing marks were wayoff. So with some help we found tdc and marked it , so tdc is good , but my question is how far left or right would the correct mark )7 dgree btdc be maybe someone can meassure it for me so I can mark it on mine. (Or what ever the correct timming mark would be for my 74) thanks in advance |
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tailwaggers
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Joined: August 31, 2009
Posts: 270
Location: Silver Spring, MD
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| 68IHscout wrote: |
| Now that this makes sense , id like some help, I have a 74sb svda , now the po rebuilt the engine as far as I know , but the timing marks were wayoff. So with some help we found tdc and marked it , so tdc is good , but my question is how far left or right would the correct mark )7 dgree btdc be maybe someone can meassure it for me so I can mark it on mine. (Or what ever the correct timming mark would be for my 74) thanks in advance |
This says 11.5 mm to the right of TDC on stock size pulley for 7.5 deg BTDC.
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68IHscout
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| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks for that info tailwaggers I really apreciate it |
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andk5591
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:39 am Post subject: |
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Just snag a degree pulley and be done with it. I do that on everything anymore - got tired of guessing if the marks were original or put on by someone else.
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68IHscout
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Location: santa ana ca
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| andk5591 wrote: |
| Just snag a degree pulley and be done with it. I do that on everything anymore - got tired of guessing if the marks were original or put on by someone else. |
thought about that ,but since my marks are just so screwed up that I'm afraid if I put one on ill have the same problem ,so ill stick with this till engine gets tired |
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andk5591
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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The key slot is indicated on the crank - will only go on one way - And if you scrap the engine - pull it off an use it on the next engine. I like being able to see where I am at idle and full advance. Yeah, I know - you can measure TDC and all that, but takes about 10 minutes to change pulleys and then you are done.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone 1914. Ex wifes car.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Ex-wifes car.
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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robclark63
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Joined: April 29, 2008
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Location: Ellicott City, MD
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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if you get a degree pulley make sure you get a good one...some do not have deep grooves that help throw the oil back in the engine and you might develop a leak 
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68IHscout
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Location: santa ana ca
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| andk5591 wrote: |
| The key slot is indicated on the crank - will only go on one way - And if you scrap the engine - pull it off an use it on the next engine. I like being able to see where I am at idle and full advance. Yeah, I know - you can measure TDC and all that, but takes about 10 minutes to change pulleys and then you are done. |
that's the thing I don't know exactly what po did , but the timing marks on my existing pulley are way off so if I put a new one on it probably end up in the same spot as the old one. |
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andk5591
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:56 am Post subject: |
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OK - let me say this a different way - there is a slot cut into the crank itself by VW. There is a key that goes in it and there is a corresponding slot in the crank pulley. Unless the PO ground a new slot in the crankshaft itself and welded the old one up (absolutely NEVER saw that done), you will be fine and it will be correct. If you ever had the generator or alternator pulley off, it's the same kind of thing.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone 1914. Ex wifes car.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Ex-wifes car.
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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68IHscout
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Joined: March 10, 2010
Posts: 3122
Location: santa ana ca
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| andk5591 wrote: |
| OK - let me say this a different way - there is a slot cut into the crank itself by VW. There is a key that goes in it and there is a corresponding slot in the crank pulley. Unless the PO ground a new slot in the crankshaft itself and welded the old one up (absolutely NEVER saw that done), you will be fine and it will be correct. If you ever had the generator or alternator pulley off, it's the same kind of thing. |
ok I understand what your saying ,now let me ask u this , the pulley that's on there now has the original timing marks which in my case they don't line up correctly now this pulley has the slot in it which goes in like u said only one way , now if I was to buy a new one and put it on wouldn't the timing marks be in the same spot? Since it only goes in one way thus leaving me in the same predicament? Now if u say no it would change then ill go buy a nice deep slotted one to put on. But I'm thinking the dist gear may be off 180degree b ut as of now I'm not sure that's possible , is it??? |
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Bruce Amacker
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andk5591
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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I run degreed on all 4 of my engines (1600, 1776, 1200 amd 1914). I checked TDC once with a stock pulley and when I put the degreed one on, it was the same place, so I don't bother anymore. Not saying its a bad thing to do - I just don't.
As far as the dist being 180 out - my 1200 is like that - not a big deal - #1 is in a funny place, but I am running a primo Brazilian 009  at the moment, so nothing is in the way. I am too lazy to pull the gear, so I just run it.
Once again - if you are comfortable with using the stock pulley, no prob - there is a post on here somewhere with a degreed wheel that you can print and cut out and mark your pulley. I do that when working on someone else car. I can mark where 30 degrees is so I can verify the advance.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone 1914. Ex wifes car.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Ex-wifes car.
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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68IHscout
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Joined: March 10, 2010
Posts: 3122
Location: santa ana ca
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| andk5591 wrote: |
I run degreed on all 4 of my engines (1600, 1776, 1200 amd 1914). I checked TDC once with a stock pulley and when I put the degreed one on, it was the same place, so I don't bother anymore. Not saying its a bad thing to do - I just don't.
As far as the dist being 180 out - my 1200 is like that - not a big deal - #1 is in a funny place, but I am running a primo Brazilian 009 at the moment, so nothing is in the way. I am too lazy to pull the gear, so I just run it.
Once again - if you are comfortable with using the stock pulley, no prob - there is a post on here somewhere with a degreed wheel that you can print and cut out and mark your pulley. I do that when working on someone else car. I can mark where 30 degrees is so I can verify the advance. |
for now it will have to do , but if I decide to fix the dist gear then ill get a nice degree pulley ,.. thanks for the info. On ur dist being off 180. I'm pretty sure now that's what p o did |
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