Wiring and placing electric fuel pump HELP!

[jsusisaliv]

I purchased a electric fuel pump for my 1600 super. I need to wire it in so it comes on when I turn the switch on. What wire would work for that? I spliced in a wire under the seat after using my meter to make sure its hot only when the switch is on but only to find out there were not enough volts to run the pump. I can easily hot wire it to my battery but would need a switch to turn off and on before and after running and I really do not want to do that. I am also having trouble finding a place to mount it. I was going to mount it in the front where the fuel line runs out but I have no way to put bolts on the back side once I put them all the way through and I am sure sheet metal screws would eventually just work there way through. Now I am trying to find a place in the engine compartment but everything is so tight there. I worked on this for about 3 hours today and got nowhere! Please give me any suggestions.

[mondshine]

I would consider using a fuel pump relay like the ones in CIS Rabbits (and lots of other cars, Saabs, Volvos, etc.) They are plentiful in junkyards and also available new.
Here's a diagram:

Terminal 30 is always hot.
Terminal 31 is ground.
Terminal 15 is hot with ignition on.
Terminal 50 has nothing to do with this application (but it is hot with the key in the "Start" position.
Terminal 1 (on the ignition coil) provides the tach signal.
Terminal 87 provides +12V to the pump.


With this setup, the pump will operate as long as the key is on and the engine is turning (however slowly, like when it is being turned by the starter). This is much safer than wiring the pump directly to the ignition switch.

Good luck, Mondshine

[jsusisaliv]

Thanks!
Although I am not a wiring guru.
If I were to buy one of these relays I would assume there would be 2 wires on one side # 87 and # 13 and three wires on the other #30 #15 & #1 from looking at your diagram? So what would #30 #15 & #50 on that diagram supposed to be? Also I would not need to fool with the coil wires correct or is this where the #15 hot wire coming from?

[jsusisaliv]

Is this what you are talking about?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-FUEL-PUMP-RELAY...ccessories

[mondshine]

Yes, that's the relay.
If there's a foreign car junkyard near you, you'll probably get 3 or 4 of them for that price.
Look carefully at that photo and notice that you'll need 1 smaller connector for that .110 size lug on the relay.

The relays have the terminal numbers labeled. I don't have one laying around; maybe somebody else has a picture.

Terminal 15 on the coil receives +12V from the ignition switch. Additional wires probably connected there lead to the idle cutoff solenoid and to the choke heating element.

Terminal 1 on the coil is grounded by the points as they close. A green wire from the condenser is connected to it.

If you don't feel comfortable with this project, get some help from a friend who has done this kind of work before.

Good luck, Mondshine

[Duane]

local parts stores have Bosch style relays for about 4-5 bucks, 40 amp rating, should work easy for a fuel pump.

this diagram shows the 5 plug, you only need the 4 plug which will not have the 87a plug.

http://www.classictruckshop.com/clubs/earlyburbs/projects/bosch/relay.htm

30- battery fused power
87- power to fuel pump
85- keyed power
86- ground

once you learn to wire up and use relays, you be doing all kind of shit.

[mondshine]

Duane-
A standard Bosch type relay will certainly operate the pump. but it will not stop the pump if the engine stops turning; like in a collision, if the car is upside down, etc.
That's why Volkswagen uses fuel pump relays (and other safety features) in cars with electric fuel pumps.

There are decisions for each owner to make when making modifications related to safety and reliability. I'd go with the fuel pump relay.

[Duane]

[JasonBaker]

I put mine directly under the fuel tank, it's gravity feed. Goes back to a FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR set a 3lbs. Then to a brass T for the dual carbs. In case you didn't know you will need a fuel pump block off plate.
It's in the sheet metal, but all it's doing is holding it secure. The fuel lines would stop it from falling completely out. I also grounded it at the install location.

I have a switch for manual cutoff, but I Like the relay.

I came to help and learned something instead.

Thanks

[Duane]

[Islandman]

I installed this one on the aft left inner wing and its been fine there for the last 6 years. I first tried it up front under the tank but it wouldnt "push" from there. I just guessed these like to pull better than pushing so there you go.......

[mondshine]

Here's one; it's the relay in the center of the photo (with a fuse on top).
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=820466

[brettsvw]

I like the way you did the fuel lines.
Is your pump noisy bolted directly to the body.
I use vanagon fuel pump isolators (rubber mounts).
If I see a vanagon in a junk yard I always grab them.

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My 59 kombi build.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=635003&highlight=

My buggy build.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=558601&highlight=

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=289807

[Islandman]

[JasonBaker]

mine is mounted directly to the body and it can be loud sometimes.

Sometimes it bothers me because it's so loud, other times I like to hear it and know it's working.

It's a love/hate relationship

[jennyt]

The electric fuel pump on my '66 doublecab chatters loudly when it's hot outside and I've gone out for five miles or more, but on short trips, I hardly hear it, and hear it lightly only when I first turn the key on for a couple seconds.

[glutamodo]

Personally I don't like the clatter of Facet style pumps, which is why I used some old watercooled radiator mounts when I mounted mine:

This is one of the mounts:

And here's the pump with those mounts: