Type 4 rebuild-Vanagon Need advice

[Vanagon80]

It is time to rebuild the engine in my aircooled 1980 Vanagon. I am trying to decide what my options are and wich one would be best. I have used the vanagon for a daily driver for 5 years. I had considered replacing the cam, bearings, rings, lifters... and keeping cost low but since we plan on doing so much traveling with the kids I have reconsidered.

-This is my daily driver, but I have resurected a 1974 MGB to drive untill I finish fixing the Vanagon.

-I plan to drive the vanagon across country with my family (wife and two kids, soon to be three) during the summers.

I have read about the Raby Camper Special Kits, they seem great. My concern is that from what I understand in cost over $5,000 for the kit(not a long block or turn key)? I do not doubt that it is worth the money for the quality parts and service you would recieve. My issue is that it seems like you probably pay alot of money for the performance gains this kit offers, I am perfectly happy driving 55-60mph, and slowly chugging up hills and mountains.
I am in St.Louis, MO
Does anyone know any shops in the midwest that do quality rebuilds for type 4 motors, any shops out of the midwest besides Raby, or is Raby the best bet?
I maitenence my own vehicles, this would be my first rebuild, I would like to do this on $3,000 or less but I may be able to talk my wife into letting me drop up to $5,000 for top quality(won't leave us stranded in the desert again quality).

[reluctantartist]

You can do the rebuild yourself using new heads and decent parts. The camper special is the best out there and something I hope to get one day, but you can do it yourself but be ready to do a little research on what to get and finding a good machine shop. You will know your engine very well after you are done. You have to put the camper special together yourself too.
_________________
1982 Westy, 1974 412 Variant... Yes, Aircooled's are great! Oh and I do have modern computer controlled vehicles too, but I just don't care about them.

[CQ]

I just got mine done here in SD area from HeadFlow master in Vista, he may ship and it cost me about $2200 he even gives you a 1 year unlimited mile warranty. Just do not know the logistics between you being in the mid west and all that. But I am very happy with his work. 2.0L Air cooled engine.
_________________
82 Westy 'Betsy'
72 Bus 'Bertha' -Sold
Learning about 2.0L AFC Everyday.

[Vanagon80]

Good advice. Thank you.
Anyone know of any shops that sell rebuild kits or rebuilds that offer close to the quality of Raby but closer to stock performance/la bit cheaper?
I am exploring my options here, I am open to doing it myself, transplanting a running motor, buying turn key, buying a longblock....
I just want to make sure that I do things right and am not pulling the engine again in the near future and spending more money. I also have to work within a resonable budget.

[Vanagon80]

Any suggestions on machine shops that have a good reputation for re-grinding cams, cranks,rebuilt/rebuilding heads,lifters.....,pistons...

Is there anyone who sells a quality stock performance all inclusive rebuild kit for the type 4?

[MarkWard]

I can not comment on a reputable rebuilder, but I would suggest while you have the engine apart to have the injectors serviced. The Vanagons were set to run very lean = hot from the factory. Over time the injectors will start to clog and without an O2 sensor, the ECU has no idea that the engine is slowly leaning out. This can lead to dropped seats and melted pistons. You don't say, but if you are still running points, you may want to upgrade to electronic ignition. The point gap would close as the points wore in causing the ignition timing to change. Not a problem if you keep on top of your points, but electronic is set it and forget it. I am a big fan of aircooleds.

[Vanagon80]

It is a 1980 California emmisions vanagon.
I removed the catylitic converter but it still has the o2 sensor. I will definetly get new or rebuilt injectors to go with the new motor.

[CQ]

A Sambista friend told me about these 2 places for injectors.
www.crusinperformance.com or www.witchhunter.com
I sent mine to witchhunter in Wa and they did an awesome job, the other sambaista took his to cruisinperformance and can vouch for them.

Mine came back with new lil hoses and looking brand new with the O rings and a diagostic paper showing there flow rate. Really great work.
_________________
82 Westy 'Betsy'
72 Bus 'Bertha' -Sold
Learning about 2.0L AFC Everyday.

[MarkWard]

The 80 Ca version I am pretty sure was also electronic ignition from the factory. So you are sitting well. Good luck with it all.

[Vanagon80]

I had found someone willing to trade a running rabbit for the vanagon as it is. I thought about doing this and then using the money that would be used for a rebuild and money from then selling the rabbit to buy a decent baywindow or vanagon aircooled or diesel.
So far my wife is set on fixing the vanagon although she is less willing to part with the money to do it right.

[MarkWard]

If the intention is to use the Vanagon for cross country trips, explain to your wife that it is better to do it right when you are home safe and sound than to be half way to or from home with a break down. Done right, you should get years of reliable service. You know this van, I don't think doing a juggling act of vehicles to end up with another vanagon would be worth the trouble. Bird in the hand. Bays are getting more money now than in the past. Plus to me the Vanagon is a superior hwy machine compared to my old bus. There were not a lot of diesel powered vanagons sold in the US. Two years was it. I think they are rare and because they can run on about any thing, hold their value as well.

[reluctantartist]

Stay with what you have...rsxsr is right. You will get a whole new set of issues to figure out with the next one. If you are willing to do it yourself and have the ability and inclination... you could piece it together ie Raby Cam, flowmaster heads (a little less than the type 4 heads), and don't skimp on seals and the like you may be able to pull it off for under $3K and have a solid engine. Just make sure the FI system is working correctly no matter what you do. I have a cali setup and they are better than the fed since they have electronic ignition and an OXY sensor. The sensor will adjust to a point for lean conditions. I am planning big trips for mine too and have two 1 year olds at the moment who will be added travelers with my wife and teenage daughter. I decided if I can't come up with the cash for a CS kit I would start piecing together my engine and do it myself. Get the Tim Wilson book and see if it is something you can do http://www.amazon.com/Rebuild-Volkswagen-air-Cooled-Engine-models/dp/0895862255. If you do the Raby kit you would still want this book. Good luck and I hope you keep her on the road...maybe even run into you someday.
_________________
1982 Westy, 1974 412 Variant... Yes, Aircooled's are great! Oh and I do have modern computer controlled vehicles too, but I just don't care about them.

[mightyart]

There is alot more to the engine then just the short block.
You can do it on the cheap and have a bunch of problems, or you can do it right once.
I think the biggest reason aircooled vanagons get such a bad rap is the junk second engines people put in them, because they think cutting costs will somehow get the same result as spending what it takes to do it right.
Doesn't work in anything else, why should it work in cars?
Mine has a junk rebuild in it, not only was the shortblock itself cheap, the install was to.
I am constantly doing something to squeeze more life out of it till I can get a quality engine.
Here's an example, I just had to replace the oil cooler seals, they were leaking bad, why? because the rebuilders used cheap seals now most have had to be replaced.
The engine danced around pretty good to, so while I had the back of the engine apart I replaced the rear engine mounts on the mustace bar.
They were all shot, I would bet they where the original ones, probably shot when then put them back on the rebuild they stuck in ten years ago.

[vwlovr]

have you looked at Archway Imports? i think they build motors, they've been around StL forever, i used to go to them for bay parts 20 years ago.

[Jake Raby]

The fastest way to spend a thousand dollars is by trying to save one...

That said, the CS is a STOCK DISPLACEMENT 2.0 engine, it is hard to say that its modified greatly from stock, because its not.. The cam, heads and CR are altered and those things account for a 30% increase in overall performance, a flat torque curve and great drive-ability with cool running.

The only way to have CS benefits is to buy a CS, ask anyone who has tried it in the past and wasn't happy.. It took me a long time to cook up the CS combo and it now has over a decade more evolution in its composition...
_________________
Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell"

[fredn]

I just rebuilt my engine myself with some help from my brother in law. You can do this your self if you have some wrenching skills and the patience to do it right.

I spent less than 300 bucks on new pistons and cylinders. Then I put the pistons and wrist pins on the digital scale and took the time to balance them all. They all ended up being 670 grams I believe.

Bought a new cam from evw parts. It is awesome. I bought this scat camshaft


Camshaft - Type 4 C25
Code:20086
Price: $89.95
Quantity in Basket: none
272 degrees duration, .430" lift at the valve
All profiles thoroughly developed and tested by
SCAT to insure maximum cylinder head flow and horsepower
Ground from NEW BILLET BLANKS
Can be used with solid or hydraulic lifters.
Cam flange has been drilled & tapped for a bolt-on style cam gear
Wiz-lock flange 5/16-24 grade 8 bolts included
NOTE: New lifters must be used to insure camshaft warranty

you can reuse your old cam gear so for 90 bucks YOU HAVE to get a better cam. This is whats at the heart of the camper special anyway. That and Jake does a super job of balancing all the parts so you get a very efficient engine. His heads are great too. But you can do a good job on yours if you take your time. Most machine shops will not do a good job on these heads unless they have experience with them.

I run it with new hydraulic lifters.

I did my own valve job. I bought one used head and was able to reuse one of my own. The seats were ok. I was able to get a nice job by lapping with a drill. Although tedious It saved me a ton of money at the machine shop. Lap clean lap clean until it is right then do the next valve.

All new stainless valves. New cam bearings. Mains were still good.

Buy a gasket kit. What else....

Anyway I am at the end of my break in and my engine rips with the new cam. Pulls hard up hills. I love it. Just took it from Vancouver to Rossland and Back.

Do it your self, it really is a labour of love. Clean the hell out of everything. Paint all your tin. You will be bonded with your van for life.

I truly believe no one will do as good a job as you can yourself because you care more than anyone else about doing it right.

Good luck and have fun.

Fred

[Vanagon80]

Thank you all for the input, definetly have lots to think about.

Raby, from the research I have done I have no doubt that your product is the best and I am really hoping that your drive train pakage will be part of this rebuild. Try to imagine how hard of a sell this is to my wife (she wants to spend $2000 of this money on a home birth instead of letting the insurance I pay for float the bill in the hospital) Explaining to her that spending $2600-$5000 on the vanagon instead of our child has not managed to get me the thumbs up quite yet.

Anyway, the engine will be coming out of the van sometime over the next few weekends, then I can better asses which of these routes to take.

[fredn]

I spent less than 1200 bucks to rebuild mine. Even with higher grade pistons and cylinders you should be well below 2000 bucks if you do it yourself.

[reluctantartist]

82 Westy Man has a Camper Special. You might want to PM him.
_________________
1982 Westy, 1974 412 Variant... Yes, Aircooled's are great! Oh and I do have modern computer controlled vehicles too, but I just don't care about them.

[Jake Raby]