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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50216
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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:36 pm Post subject: VR6 in an automatic Vanagon |
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I came across a couple of VR6's that I can get very reasonably, both have flywheels and not flex plates. I also have a nice Vanagon I picked up with an automatic tranny. Don't know much about making this swap. What do I need for a flex plate? Will the WBXer plate fit on the VR6, or will the VR6 plate fit to a Vanagon torque converter?
Any other info on doing this swap? Doesn't seem to be a lot of info out there. Most posts and sites just say its a good swap, but lack detail.
Thanks, WT |
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James 93SLC Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 937 Location: NE Ohio
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Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:21 am Post subject: Re: VR6 in an automatic Vanagon |
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Wildthings wrote: |
I came across a couple of VR6's that I can get very reasonably, both have flywheels and not flex plates. I also have a nice Vanagon I picked up with an automatic tranny. Don't know much about making this swap. What do I need for a flex plate? Will the WBXer plate fit on the VR6, or will the VR6 plate fit to a Vanagon torque converter?
Any other info on doing this swap? Doesn't seem to be a lot of info out there. Most posts and sites just say its a good swap, but lack detail.
Thanks, WT |
I believe the Kennedy VR6 adapter comes with the needed flexplate, as I don't believe either the VR or WBX one will work.
I too am exploring this option more since the price on the Bostig setup has climbed past $6K.
Not too many write-ups due to there being lots of fabrication work. There are a few decent threads with pics, and Berg I think answered a few of my questions. Really I think you are best to have the VR donor car in hand so that you can get all the harness that you need.
Edit: Found the email I got from Kennedy
Quote: |
You have to have the flex plate that comes in our kit, the Vanagon flex will not work. Cost of kit is $480 (Automatic adapter kits come with: Adapter Plate, flex-plate and bolts.)
We have a 3 to 4 week lead time before parts are ready to ship.
KENNEDY ENGINEERED PRODUCTS, INC. 661-272-1147
38830 17th St. E Fax: 661-272-1575
Palmdale, CA 93550
www.kennedyeng.com |
_________________ -------------------------
91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
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Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
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tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka" |
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insyncro Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 15086 Location: New York
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Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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IMHO, the VR6 is not ideal for a swap into a Vanagon.
I recently had a Syncro VR6 come to me for work.
I actually turned it down as the entire conversion was very sloppy and it showed in how it ran. Nothing I could do, but reconvert for this particular van.
I think there is a reason you don't see more of them around.
dylan |
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James 93SLC Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 937 Location: NE Ohio
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Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that a sloppy install can make any conversion work poorly. I also think this one hasn't been looked at much because of the need for a raised engine cover. Campers don't like that because of the bed issue.
Suby's are popular because they fit.
Inline 4 cylinders are popular because it was done with the diesel and parts are there already.
Anything else...V6 or V8 requires a bit more engineering and $$$, and that keeps most people away.
If I do go the VR6 route, it will be fully documented and done right. _________________ -------------------------
91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
-------------------------
Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
--------------------------------------------------------
tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka" |
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Corwyn Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2009 Posts: 2225 Location: Olympia, Washington
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James 93SLC Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 937 Location: NE Ohio
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Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: VR6 |
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Corwyn wrote: |
Just one question . . . . . . . why? |
Why a VR6? Is that what you're questioning? _________________ -------------------------
91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
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Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
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tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka" |
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Beetsport Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2005 Posts: 475 Location: Sacramento, CA
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Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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James 93SLC wrote: |
I agree that a sloppy install can make any conversion work poorly. I also think this one hasn't been looked at much because of the need for a raised engine cover. Campers don't like that because of the bed issue.
Suby's are popular because they fit.
Inline 4 cylinders are popular because it was done with the diesel and parts are there already.
Anything else...V6 or V8 requires a bit more engineering and $$$, and that keeps most people away.
If I do go the VR6 route, it will be fully documented and done right. |
You will also need to cut some of the area of the deck towards the rear seat for clearance reasons. It's been done plenty..
Check into the 1.8T too. Same (or more) power than the VR6 with just programming the ECU. Fuel mileage better too..
_________________ '90 Syncro Westy 1.8T with 180hp 174 torque, CA safe!
http://H2oVanagon.com
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=217285 |
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Tristar Eric Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2004 Posts: 1241 Location: Portland, Or
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Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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A few things you need to ask yourself...
Are you willing to spin that VR6 at 4000 rpm while cruising at 70mph?
Are you willing to cut the firewall and top deck to fit it?
I would recommend an engine that likes to spin at 4000 to 5000 rpm's happily to an owner of an automatic. (Subaru).
Did you say a Bostig kit costs $6000? is that installed? |
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dredward Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2007 Posts: 1081
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Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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Beetsport wrote: |
James 93SLC wrote: |
I agree that a sloppy install can make any conversion work poorly. I also think this one hasn't been looked at much because of the need for a raised engine cover. Campers don't like that because of the bed issue.
Suby's are popular because they fit.
Inline 4 cylinders are popular because it was done with the diesel and parts are there already.
Anything else...V6 or V8 requires a bit more engineering and $$$, and that keeps most people away.
If I do go the VR6 route, it will be fully documented and done right. |
You will also need to cut some of the area of the deck towards the rear seat for clearance reasons. It's been done plenty..
Check into the 1.8T too. Same (or more) power than the VR6 with just programming the ECU. Fuel mileage better too..
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I and everyone who's done this swap is 100% happy!!!!! |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50216
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Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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dredward wrote: |
I and everyone who's done this swap is 100% happy!!!!! |
Which swap did you do? The VR6 or the 1.8T? |
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syncrodoka Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005 Posts: 11997 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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He is a 1.8T pilot. |
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hiram6 Samba Member
Joined: September 29, 2006 Posts: 1880 Location: Beautiful South
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:24 am Post subject: |
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Tristar Eric wrote: |
A few things you need to ask yourself...
Are you willing to spin that VR6 at 4000 rpm while cruising at 70mph?
Are you willing to cut the firewall and top deck to fit it?
I would recommend an engine that likes to spin at 4000 to 5000 rpm's happily to an owner of an automatic. (Subaru).
Did you say a Bostig kit costs $6000? is that installed? |
The Bostig kit is just a few dollars north of $5K
Plus shipping, plus automatic specific parts, plus extras like the heat shield, etc.
Then add in the the cost of the used engine (or crate engine like I have) and the off-the-shelf parts you need from RockAuto, and yeah, you're looking north of $6K total.
Still okay for me, to have a fairly plug and play conversion without hassles of a DIY Subi conversion. Nothing against the Subi, I would love one, I just think the skill level to do one may be a stretch for me, whereas I feel the Bostig is not.
I know for sure the VR6 would be, to get us back on track here. I do see the desire for one though, I had a Passat with the VR6, and that was a GREAT engine. Just don't think it's a good match for the automatic without getting into re-gearing. _________________ 1985 Westy, 1.9L automatic (Daisy)
1996 Mazda Miata
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited
You can't lie around on the beach and drink rum all day.................unless you start first thing in the morning. |
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James 93SLC Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 937 Location: NE Ohio
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:45 am Post subject: |
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Tristar Eric wrote: |
A few things you need to ask yourself...
Are you willing to spin that VR6 at 4000 rpm while cruising at 70mph?
Did you say a Bostig kit costs $6000? is that installed? |
My Corrado likes that 3500-4000 band just fine
The cutting is a little bit of an issue for me, but I really wouldn't see myself wanting/needing to return the van to bone stock looks. I've seen a few pics of VR's in a van that didn't need cut that far back. I would look into running a spacer on the trans mount, much like the Bostig, to shift it rearward a bit.
As someone posted already, the Bostig kit by the time you order the incidentals and a engine, the price gets up there.
1.8T is an option, but then you have a host of other problems to solve. Does it get canted over? Does in need a modified oil pan? Then you have intercooler routing issues, and I'm sure the wiring is a bit more involved (i.e. DBW or immobilizer). Also the 1.8T have their own maintenance issues. Turbos aren't cheap
Back to the VR and why I like it. I'm VERY familiar with it. It's has very nice low end torque. Is very bullet proof. It sounds fantastic I could go on. _________________ -------------------------
91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
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Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
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tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka" |
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