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DoctorP
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Joined: April 06, 2013
Posts: 25
Location: Clear Lake, TX
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 Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:20 pm Post subject: Having trouble removing the brake drum |
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Hi there,
I am having trouble removing the brake rear drum of 73 bus (see attached picture). I have researched this, so I kind of know what I'm doing, but have not done it yet you I am proceeding slowly so as not to break something important.
I have the the bus jacked and on a stand (right rear wheel only) and right rear wheel removed. I've removed the two 11 mm bolts. The parking brake is all the way released. The drum rotates with some friction.
My thought was that I have the composite drum so I don't have to remove the axel nut. When I pull on the drum it doesn't budge. I tapped on the drum with a hammer (as seen in some videos) and it still does not budge.
While I believe the parking brake is off, I can't be sure that its not broken, jammed. I don't know how to tell if thats the case, but the fact that the drum rotates with some friction makes me suspicious.
Though I may not have to remove the axel nut, its really on there good, and with rust to boot. I've liquid wrenched it for 24 hours, and still cant remove the cotter pin. I don't have a 46 MM wrench anyway, but I can get one easily enough.
Please let me know what you think I should do.
DP
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1973 Westphalia Campmobile
Proud owner since April 19, 2013
Engine Code GE009830 |
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 23859
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, Land of the giant flying moose!
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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Time for a scrap of 2x4 and a BFH, whack it on the outer edge of the face the wheel sits against where those numbers are in a few different places, you are trying to cock it sideways a little in various places to break it free from where it's rusted onto the hub.
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Randy in Maine
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Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 29742
Location: The Beach
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| And try backing off the brake adjuster star wheel a bit more. It could be getting hung up on the brake linings set into a "groove" in the brake drum. |
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bigbore
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Joined: December 19, 2003
Posts: 2710
Location: Wasilla Alaska
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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If you are doing a brake job you are going to wish you had that 46mm socket.
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Sweumteam
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Joined: February 16, 2012
Posts: 18
Location: Johns Creek GA.
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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You don't need to remove the axel nut to remove the drum. Just wack the drum like Bus Daddy said. Good Luck..
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fusername
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Joined: March 15, 2006
Posts: 2836
Location: Boston MA
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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I find it easeist, esp on a new car, to just remove the axle nut and do the whole thing. then when you clean it up and grease it when you put it back together, it willl all be nice and easy in the future.
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| obnoxiousblue wrote: | | Maybe Ben Pon's ghost comes and vomits NOS stampings for your bus, but not mine! |
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shiningstar76 
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Joined: July 12, 2003
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Location: NH-> MA-> IL-> ES-> CZ-> NC-> VA-> Savannah, GA
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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When I worked at NAPA they would use a sledge hammer.
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78 Subaru Brat-Daily Driver
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| hoagy86 wrote: | | I have a hardback bentley as well as the idiot John muir. |
| Wildthings wrote: | | It was actually too long by about 3-4 inches and I had to work it quite a bit to force it all in. Much better than too short though |
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Amskeptic
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Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 7130
Location: All Across The Country
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: Having trouble removing the brake drum |
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| DoctorP wrote: |
Please let me know what you think I should do.
DP |
It is very important to back off the shoes and the ebrake cable nuts if you are noticing friction as you try to rotate while removing the drum. These composite drums love to bite at the small circle where they are piloted by the hub. You can *see* the drum pulling away from the hub at the lug holes, and you ask yourself, "why is this stuck then?"
Well, you need to pull the drum outwards and rap the drum on the edge straight towards the center. Do NOT hit the damn thing hard! Taptaptaptaptaptap while pulling. If you hit it hard, you can cause a groove between the drum and the hub and you deserve that little PIA.
I use anti-seize around the circle and on the hub flange at re-install time. Do NOT slather the crap on. Just a very skinny barely noticeable film will make your future easy and fun.
Colin
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DoctorP
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Joined: April 06, 2013
Posts: 25
Location: Clear Lake, TX
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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It kind of looks like the bushing/collar behind the axel nut might prevent the drum from being removed but I will take everyone's word that it won't.
I whacked on it with the hammer; whacked on it with a 2x4 over it also; tried to adjust the stars but they are frozen. I'll spray some liquid wrench on those as well and try again tomorrow.
I like fusername's suggestion:.
| fusername wrote: | | I find it easeist, esp on a new car, to just remove the axle nut and do the whole thing. |
Maybe I am being too delicate: shiningstar76 suggests a sledgehammer and busdaddy suggests a BFH. However:
| Amskeptic wrote: | | Do NOT hit the damn thing hard! Taptaptaptaptaptap while pulling. If you hit it hard, you can cause a groove between the drum and the hub and you deserve that little PIA |
I'll try all of things and get back with you this time tomorrow. I really appreciate the advice!
DP
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1973 Westphalia Campmobile
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Amskeptic
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Joined: October 18, 2002
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Location: All Across The Country
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| DoctorP wrote: |
Maybe I am being too delicate: shiningstar76 suggests a sledgehammer and busdaddy suggests a BFH. However:
| Amskeptic wrote: | | Do NOT hit the damn thing hard! Taptaptaptaptaptap while pulling. If you hit it hard, you can cause a groove between the drum and the hub and you deserve that little PIA |
I'll try all of things and get back with you this time tomorrow. I really appreciate the advice!
DP |
If you like smooth non-pulsing brakes, you WILL back off the shoes if at all possible (slackening ebrake cables will help!), and you will be patient and mindful with your hammering. Since I am recommending that you hit towards the center, I am telling you not to go nuts. Hitting at the numbers at the edge towards the middle of the car, the drum is better supported, so a whack will very well help break a rust bond between the hub flange and the drum center. BUT, look, like I said, if you see movement between the drum and the lugs, then don't waste your time, the rust bond is done, it is the drum hole biting the hub! Subtle differences in content atwixt all this advice.
Colin
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Wildthings
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Once you buy the tools for removing the nut, doing so becomes a non issue. With the hub removed not only is the brake work a bit easier, but you can also replace the outer axle seal while you are in there. |
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bigbore
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Location: Wasilla Alaska
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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This is why I said about removing the hub not that you can do a brake job with it in the way but it way nicer when it gone. I just happen to be doing a rear brake job now its a vanagon but basically the same.
and when you get the nut off you may find stuff like this I just found can you guess what wrong here?
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notchboy
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Joined: April 27, 2002
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Location: Seattle WA
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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My guess is that you didn't get a new cotter pin, or that you don't have a pan under the brake assembly so that you can clean it all with mineral spirits, or maybe you forgot a pack of smoke prior to starting the brake job, or could it be that you didn't remember that you needed to pick up one of the kids from school but took your bus apart - it being the ride in which you would of picked up said kids....... I could go on 
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1963 Pearl White Sunroof Notch
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bigbore
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Joined: December 19, 2003
Posts: 2710
Location: Wasilla Alaska
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| notchboy wrote: | | My guess is that you didn't get a new cotter pin, or that you don't have a pan under the brake assembly so that you can clean it all with mineral spirits, or maybe you forgot a pack of smoke prior to starting the brake job, or could it be that you didn't remember that you needed to pick up one of the kids from school but took your bus apart - it being the ride in which you would of picked up said kids....... I could go on |
I don't know I will have to asked the owner if he was the one who left the spit pin out but it was missing and tell him Iam adding a hub and nut to his bill  .
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notchboy
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bigbore
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Location: Wasilla Alaska
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| notchboy wrote: | That seal could use a changin as well  |
Ok all right if you insist  I have them in stock anything else? my drip pan ok? 
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notchboy
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| Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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Thats not even a bus! What kind of show you runnin here or what! Is that a Vanagon? At Least the floor is clean and the spares look to be in some sort of assemblance.
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Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1963 Pearl White Sunroof Notch
1964 T34 S Convertible
1974 Westfalia Hardtop Campmobile
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top
the1500club.com
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bigbore
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Joined: December 19, 2003
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Location: Wasilla Alaska
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| Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| notchboy wrote: | Thats not even a bus! What kind of show you runnin here or what! Is that a Vanagon?
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You just NOW are noticing that? I made that disclaimer 5 post ago!
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DoctorP
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Location: Clear Lake, TX
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 7:45 pm Post subject: I am officially defeated by the bus |
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I've spent a few hours for five evenings and broken 4 tools trying to remove the brake drum and I am admitting defeat.
I started innocently enough just trying to do a brake job. I followed everyones advice here but still the drum wouldn't budge. So I decided to remove the whole hub and work on it on the bench.
First problem was I couldn't remove the cotter pin. I spent three evenings trying to remove the cotter pin using various tools and impact devices. Finally I decided to drill through it. I broke 3 drill bits in the process and its still in there to some extent. I was able to clear the outer parts so the axel nut could (theoretically) rotate.
I got a 46 mm axel nut (3/4" drive) with a 1/2" adapter and a 1/2" breaker bar. This ended in the adapter deforming to the point of uselessness.
So I got a 3/4" breaker bar with a 5' cheater bar extension. The axel nut still won't spin.
I'm now out about 80 dollars in tools and I am still right where I started. Tomorrow I'll just have this monstrous beast towed to a shop and see if they can do a brake job for me. I'll also ask them to remove the axel nuts, grease the threads, and put on new axel nuts with the proper torque.
I feel so inadequate!
DP
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1973 Westphalia Campmobile
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Wildthings
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