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IdahoDoug
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Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10256
Location: N. Idaho
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 Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:15 am Post subject: |
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In thinking about that advice, I want to preface the starter fluid suggestion until you are confident a valve is not stuck open. If it's an intake valve, you could cause a pressure spike on that cylinder up past the valve into the intake. I'm sure the engine's designed to handle what would be essentially a backfire but wanted to point this out. So sequentially I'd do a compression test or my suggestion on hand cranking it to rule out the stuck valve.
Having said that, I'd still do the starter fluid personally. I would think the engine with a stuck valve in one cylinder would at least fire on the other cylinders once in a while - particularly the opposite side of the engine where the abnormal intake flow wouldn't affect them as much. Perhaps you've got the engine really flooded from trying as when totally cold it would in fact not start simply from the stuck valve. Starter fluid will still fire no matter what if you have spark, and it would dry the cylinders as well.
Anyhow, my 2 centavos to a Michigan brother (grew up in Holland, MI)
DougM
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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ottojd
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Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 189
Location: grand rapids MI
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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Yes I do have spark as indicated by grounding a plug.
Fuel shot out of the return when I turned on the pump
Will be doing a compression test in a couple of hours when my buddy comes back with a tester.
Opened the valve covers for a peek. Rocker arms are secure. However, given hydraulic lifters I can't really diagnose anything this way. (Boy the Beetle is easier, eh?)
I'll spray some ether in after it is back together.
The plugs were black, but not toast.
If I have compression then what the hell? ECU? Anybody around here have one I could use for a day?
Michiganders unite! (Even if you are from Holland)
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83 Mercedes 300 TD "Crescent" |
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ottojd
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Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 189
Location: grand rapids MI
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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Unfortunately, we had the wrong fitting for the tester.
Sprayed ether and no fire. Finally got it to cough once. Still no fire.
Is there a way that the timing could be off?
The dizzy cap is pretty carboned up, maybe causing problems?
AAAaaargh...
Would the ecu also cause it to not fire at the right time?
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IdahoDoug
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmm. More ether, then. I've had engines that people have cranked over and they were so flooded it did indeed require several ether spray/cranking attempts before it started running on ether, then finally on fuel. If you got it to explode stuff in the cylinder, then you're close.
Regarding fuel coming out the return. Where, specifically? The fuel pressure reg is an open system so even if all 4 injectors were nonfunctioning you'd get a bunch of fuel in the return to the fuel tank, so that may or may not have been useful. I'm just thinking ahead because I suspect you're going to get it going on ether and then wonder about a next step. At that point you'd have verified a spark (may be weak, or ill timed) but if it still won't run without ether you're back to fuel. Also, there may be fuel coming through when you open the return line (remember its only gotta put out near zero pressure now) but an aged pump may not make much pressure to operate the injectors.
Grand Rapids is a great city. I hear most people there have two teeth in their head nowadays, so things are moving up. Heh.
DougM
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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ottojd
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Location: grand rapids MI
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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Won't fire with help of friendly VW friends' ECU.
While checking the wires on the hall sender in the distributor I mangled the connector.
Can this be fixed? Could all this corrosion also have been my problem?
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Wildthings
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Just buy everything new, trying to fix that rotten mess would be a waste of time. |
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indytriple
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Joined: April 27, 2009
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Location: Brownsburg, Indiana
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| ottojd wrote: |
| Won't fire with help of friendly VW friends' ECU. |
Mine just died rolling down the road just like yours. Turned out to be the bad ECU. However, the good, new ECU wouldn't make it fire as the engine was way too flooded from cranking. We did an oil change to get the extra gas out and woila! Started right up with the new ECU.
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slowcoach
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Joined: December 28, 2010
Posts: 21
Location: West Yorkshire, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| tencentlife wrote: |
There are no fuses in the vital engine control circuits. This is true on German and Swedish cars in general, and a lot of other types.
When you key on and you hear the fuel pump run for a bit, you know a number things are true:
#15 circuit is being powered by the ignition switch, among many other things, that circuit powers or triggers relays that switch power to all engine control systems.
The FI relays have #30 battery power to them, so connections at alternator and inside junction box are intact.
Main FI relay is closing, meaning #15 power is reaching the ignition coil as well since the connection that triggers the relay is made there.
ECU is receiving power via the main FI relay, and has at least basic power-up circuits working because....
the fuel pump relay is closing. The ECU triggers the fuel pump relay when it powers up.
And you know the fuel pump has power and a working ground.
Now knowing these things are true when the key is switched on does not necessarily mean they are true when the engine is being cranked. If it cranks you know the #50 circuit is being powered by the ignition switch. But you don't know whether power to #15 is dropping out while the ign. switch is in the cranking position. So look at the idiot lights; if they remain on while cranking, the ign.switch is keeping power on #15 while cranking as it should.
So, just keying on, cranking however briefly, and looking at the idiot lights tells you a lot of things about some of the essential electric circuits that are required for the engine to run. You don't know much about the quality of some of the switching or connections, just that the circuits are being closed at minimum. |
that is a bloody good post! i think i have a lead on a problem thanks to this...
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ottojd
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Location: grand rapids MI
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| Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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thanks everybody for your help
It was a bad coil.
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