turning brakes good or bad?

[1970DARKNESS]

If i where to make a set of mechanical turning brakes for my baja would I blow up my trans? I have a 002 in my 70 baja. What may break if I do so? Im only going to use it to help get unstuck not for turning.

[jsturtlebuggy]

Mechanical steering brakes are not the best thing.
Since you are using the emergency brake system it is actually using only 1 brake shoe. the forward shoe. So it wears out very quickly.
This comes from experience from using them in the early 1970s.
Using a hydraulic steering brake is a much better system.
As for what you can break inside a transmission, spider gears in the differential will be the first thing to go.
Depending on how you use it will determine how long they will last.
Since the spiders and side gears are a stock carrier they will last longer than a swing axle diff.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[1970DARKNESS]

I see... after hearing that I think I can live without the turning brake. Thank you very much for your input.

[traviswx1]

Hop up the engine to use your throttle to steer! Then plant a couple more money trees in your backyard..lol
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69 Baja, 091, 2x3, cage, 1600dp, bj front, and a sh!t load of labor!

[STOICH]

[1970DARKNESS]

I may try that. Do you know where I can get some money tree seeds?

[traviswx1]

I hear you get them from the same guy that sold jack the beans to grow the beanstock! He's harder to find than Osama! lol
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69 Baja, 091, 2x3, cage, 1600dp, bj front, and a sh!t load of labor!

[Odyknuck]

I have never heard of any trans being blown from the use of Cutter brakes. Most of the time they are not used under power so the strain on the trans is not that bad. I would not recommend doing donuts with them
. If you drive in tight woods then they are a must. As stated go hydraulic. I would not own a Buggy with out them!
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He who has worn out all his toys wins.

[dirtkeeper]

on a low budget the static ones would work to get you unstuck and i dont think the brake is going to bust anything as long as your not beating it. I us mine just for getting unstuck, which isnt that often, mines hydrolic but i could probably get by with an emergency brake type.

[Manx102]

[Manx102]

[jsturtlebuggy]

Using a steering brake under power with a swingaxle transmission can and will break spider gears and cause the side gears to pop out.
This was one of the reasons for coming up with the ideas of the Beef A Diff and the superdiff.
Even with IRS transmission whether it be a bug or bus spider gears can be broken. Even though they have a better and stronger design stock carrier.
I have personal experience of breaking spider gears in an bug IRS transmission using a steering brake in a sand buggy before I was even old enough to drive on the street.
Yes I know the value of using a 4 spider diff. I had built my own 2180cc engine when I was 14. Going from a 1500cc to that large of engine was amazing amount of power. But it cause trouble with transmission breakage. Using an IRS transmission at the time was not popular so I could buy used ones for $25 or less.
In a short wheelbase buggy in the sand a steering brake is really the only way to turn and to drive straight up the face of a large dune.
I was always pushing the limits and had a very steep and not cheap learning curve.
The original post states he has a Baja Bug which is heavier and longer wheel base than a short wheel fiberglass buggy.
Mechanical steering brakes do not work as well in such a situation.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[Manx102]

1970DARKNESS I hope you will get some more feed-back before you make a decision. As I think individual rear wheel turn brakes (hydraulic or mechanical) are a benefit to have on a semi-serious or serious off road machine no matter what type of VW based vehicle it is. I cannot guarantee that you will never have a problem with them. Alot depends on you and your usage of them. But I can guarantee you that if you do off roading or the dunes there will be times you are really going to wish you had them.
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"The simplest of outdoor adventures - the most treasured memories." - Bruce Meyers
54 years of "outdoor adventures" and "treasured memories" with our Manx in my gallery.

[1970DARKNESS]

I want to do something that's not too expensive but I don't want to destroy my transmission in the process. Changing my rear brakes is not that big of a deal. I may still build the mechanical set up and see how it works. It would have been nice to have up in the snow.

[joescoolcustoms]

1. The ebrake has a balance bar inside to apply pressure to both shoes when applied. The cable pulls on the lever that is attached to one shoe, pushing on a bar as leverage to shove the shoe out to the drum, at the same time pushing the other shoe out to the other side of the drum. Do not beleive it, look at your brakes.

2. If you are only using the mechanical brake to get unstuck, it will put very minimal wear on the shoes. If the braking system is wearing one shoe more than the other, there is something wore in the mechanism causeing the pressure to push and wear unevenly. Uneven wear does not happen from a EBrake sitting still.

3. Useing a steering brake to get unstuck puts no more pressure on the transmission than being already stuck with one wheel stopped and one wheel spinning. Think about it, when the brake is applied it slows the spinning wheel to a stop and the stopped wheel starts spinning, same thing that was already happening in the first place.

4. Spider gears break when in motion, not static, meaning they break when one wheel is moving quicker than the other wheel, the spiders are in motion. When they are static, (both wheels traveling at the exact same speed, straight line) even pressure is applied. When the spiders are in motion, side loads are applied to the spider gears which causes them to bind and break. It does not take very much motion of the gears to start side loading. So, if you are stuck and one wheel is spinning, you are already in a bad spot, why not try to get unstuck.

5. A mechanical steering brake has so much less pressure than a hydraulic brake, it is much harder to shock load the tranny causing damage. Ever try to pull the EBrake handle and lock both wheels to slide sideways? Stretch the cables and not lock them up? But stab the foot brake and lock them up fairly easily. There is a reason why the automotive industry shifted from cable and lever brakes to juice brakes, and it was not because they ran out of cables and levers.

I have spoken to many people to run/ran mechanical steering brakes and they all state the same thing, they work, but just so-so. Cheap yes but no where as effective as a hydraulic brake. Build them and use them. High chance you will stretch the brake cables many times before every hurting the tranny.

Here is mine I bought at a swap meet for $ 5.00. Try to find a working hydraulic cutting brake for that price.

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Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone

[1970DARKNESS]

That pic helps with what I want to build. Thanks for all the input everyone.

[squareweave]

I'm after a set of Select-A-Traction brakes if anybody has a set they would want to sell. Send me a PM

[Whootie]

Mechanical turn brakes suck. Hydraulics can and will grenade your trans if abused. Super diff is advised and thrust plates are a must to keep the ring gear where it belongs. Spiders will be your weak link.

[dustymojave]

If you read the EXCELLENT and very accurate advice from Joe'sCoolCustoms above, you will understand that cable steering brakes are actually pretty good and rather easy on the trans compared to hydraulic steering brakes.

Let's not keep repeating non-applicable advice that's already been explained away.

Such steering brakes are pretty easy to make, even for one who is not a fabricator.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.