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3nero
Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2008
Posts: 171
Location: Dublin ,Ireland
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 Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:44 am Post subject: 412 Manual gear linkage question |
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While drive home after a long drive last night, i stopped at a red light and put the car in neutral. When the lights turned green there was no gears to be found. so with the help of some passerby i push the car to the side of the road and climbed underneath. One of the small bolts in the linkage just in front of the gearbox had dropped out and the rod was now free to do it's own thing. I put the bolt back in but now all the gears are hard to select and i also noticed a small hole drilled in the side of the bolt head which had a tiny piece of wire sticking out of it. Is this hole for some sort of safety wire to stop the bolt falling out?
I've searched the gallery and forums for pics of the linkage in good shape but couldn't find any. It's a good thing the big rubber cover caught the bolt or i would be still on the side of the road now.
How do i readjust the linkage so my gears are smooth again?
EDIT: i also took out the gear stick while i was searching for the problem. |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50360
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| You probably need to pull the gear stick again as you likely put it in wrong somehow. Yes the small hole in the set bolt is for a lock wire. Loctite on the threads will work as well. |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21521
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: 412 Manual gear linkage question |
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| 3nero wrote: |
How do i readjust the linkage so my gears are smooth again?
EDIT: i also took out the gear stick while i was searching for the problem. |
There is always more than meets th eye. Yes, the small holes are so the bolts can be safety wired in. This is a must. use good quality stainless wire.
Typically if the bolt falls out...or has a problem with getting loose it means that there are some other issues. Usually ...about 95% of the time the entire drive train package is getting toomuch movement. Check the bushings on the center of the rear hanger bar...and check the bushings over the bell housing. Also bear in mind that if the drive train is adjusted properly...there should be npo weight or pressure in any direction on the rubber bushing on the rear tail cone of the transmission. It is supposed to be exactly centered..and you should be able to push or pull the tail of he transmission about 1/8"to 3/16th" in any direction. If you can push or more the tail in the bore of the trailing crossmember more than that...the rear bushing is probably shot and allowing too much movement by the tail cone.
If its out of adjustment but the bushing is fine....the adjustment is done by the bolts at the outer end of the rear hanger bar which can drive the tail cone up anddown.....by the slotted bolts in the body at the ends of the rear hanger bar which slew the tail cone side to side.
Gross up and down misalignment is corrected by shims above the bushings over the bell housing.
I wrote a rather complete decription of this a while back.
But...I wrote all of this so you will look for problems. Your main problem is that you removed the shifter.
You will need the haynes manual section 11, page 109-111
Quote:
section 4: To adjust the linkage, engae 2nd gear and loosen the bolts which hold the mounting to the floor. Depress the clutch and move the lever in 2nd gear. It must be exactly at right angles to the transverse plane  and sloping back at about 8*. Tighten the bolts. The lever should now have about 1/2" transverse movement measured at the knob.
Section 5: engage all gears in turn using the "H" pattern. Check that the reverse catch works correctly.
Translation: By transverse plane thaey mean side toside movement of the gearshift knob bwteen the passenger and drivers seat.
So.....when viewed from say....the back seat.....the gearshift lever should be perfectly vertical. When viewed from the sside...say through the drivers door....the shift lever shoul tilt back toward the rear of the car about 8*.
Warning...if the drivetrain alignments , bushings and adjustments are next exact...this adjustment will not provide perfect results.
It is most common that only the dealer had the means and knowledge in those days to properly align the drivetrain...so most mechanics simply slapped the engine back in....no adjustments to the drivetrain...and very slightly loosened the two shifter bolts (aboout 1/3 turn) and drove it around with the rubber shifter boot pulled loose....and would tap the shifter plate around with a hammer until a desired level of custom adjustment gave smooth shifting. They would then tighten the bolts and drive back to the shop.
I did it this way for years before learning to rpoperly adjust the drive train. It is not hard...its just a little tedious. let us know how it works. Ray |
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3nero
Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2008
Posts: 171
Location: Dublin ,Ireland
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks ray.
In my defense the repair was done at 3am on one of Dublin city's busiest crossroads and all i had was a pliers and a screwdriver, so at the time any form of gear selection was a bonus. I searched that road for at least an hour for that bolt and someone mentioned Clark Griswold, and other various insults where being shouted. I phoned a friend who came out in his bay with a box full of vw bolts and then when he turned up i found the lost bolt 
I don't have a haynes for my 412 yet and keep meaning to get one.
Can anyone show me a pic of how the safety wires where meant to attach and also the gate plate? (plate holding shifter) so i can see if mine is the right way up and around
on the bright side, being a model maker, i understand transverse planes  |
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Bill K.
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Joined: May 10, 2004
Posts: 71
Location: Woodinville, Wa
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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Note differences in Shift Rod coupling end for "early", 69, and 70+ cars.
Not shown in diagram - Item 25 (late Shift Finger) is secured to 21b (late Shift Rod) with 13 (Screw) and SS wire through hole in head of Screw. Same for Item 24?
SS wire wraps around Shift Rod.
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21521
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| Bill K. wrote: |
Note differences in Shift Rod coupling end for "early", 69, and 70+ cars.
Not shown in diagram - Item 25 (late Shift Finger) is secured to 21b (late Shift Rod) with 13 (Screw) and SS wire through hole in head of Screw. Same for Item 24?
SS wire wraps around Shift Rod.
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Bill is correct. One thing of note:
The earlier coupler system (the one one the bottom) can only be used if (a) you have that shift rod and (b)...you have the correct early part that corresponds to part # 28.
That plastic cap that plugs the tunnel is very very important. It has a location notch at the 12:00 position that keys it to the body tunnel.
If you look carefully at the picture you will notice that in the early model the hole for the shift rod is almost dead center in the tunnel cap. In the late model part #28....it is elevated somewhat.
This cap....is the central alignment piece that keeps the shift rod at the correct level in plane to the rear shift rod and coupler. If it is loose or missing...the "finger" attached to the end of the shift rod will be out of alignment and describe the wrong arc...m,eaning poor shifting. Ray
If you notice in the picture |
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3nero
Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2008
Posts: 171
Location: Dublin ,Ireland
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:26 am Post subject: |
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My car is a '74 model.
I'm missing 2 parts from that diagram
no. 9 cover plate
and no. 26 o ring
also my no.7 friction cap is cracked in 3 places
I did my best adjusting the stop plate and i can now get all the gears smooth enough but i no longer have to press down on the stick to get reverse and i get a nice grind when i go from 1st to reverse instead of second 
No matter what way i position the stop plate i cant get it back the way it was. i used the handy rust stains to realign the bits but still reverse is to easy to get.
How important are the missing parts? the o ring may have fallen out on the road because i had to remove part 27 to refit the lost bolt but the cover plate didn't just fall of so it must have been removed by PO |
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Mike Fisher
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Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17974
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:58 am Post subject: |
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A good Transmission Shop should have Parts/Ideas.
_________________
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69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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Lahti411
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Joined: January 26, 2005
Posts: 223
Location: Lahti, Finland
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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I believe part no. 9 is actually welded to the cars floor, so not actually a removable part. The part no. 26 is fitted into a groove in the ball joint (part 25). I think it could be raplced with some oridnary o-ring.
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My cars: 1972 VW 411 Variant; 1973 VW 412 4d sedan |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21521
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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The part #9 is removeable. In fact its commonly not on most cars I have found in the US. Usually it is not noctied until you remove the carpet to work on it. It doesn't hurt anything not to have it.
The o-ring is more of a flat rubber washer. It is only a virbration damper. You can replace it with a regular o-ring.
Ray |
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3nero
Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2008
Posts: 171
Location: Dublin ,Ireland
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the help. i replaced the missing O ring and fiddled with the plate and now i have it back to almost the right place, 3rd is a small bit chunky but the rest of the gears are fine.
I did pull the carpet back to make the job easier so thats how i noticed the missing cover plate. Then i spent a few hours adjusting things but totally forgot to put the carpet back before i reattached the stick.
I'll be damned if i'm taking that stick off again just to to put the carpet back  |
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Mike Fisher
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Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17974
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:17 am Post subject: |
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So, slice the carpet however much necessary to clear the shifter and then glue it back together/down on the tunnel.
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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3nero
Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2008
Posts: 171
Location: Dublin ,Ireland
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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I'll be removing the seats soon to replace them with a different set so i'll sort it then  |
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