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SAXOMAT Automatic Clutch 1961-1967 - NOT Autostick Shift
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GüteAndTite
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 2:35 pm    Post subject: SAXOMAT Automatic Clutch 1961-1967 - NOT Autostick Shift Reply with quote

Hey Guys, Im trying to find out some more information about the saxomat automatic clutch system- like literature, parts lists, pictures, etc.

I have found some info and will be scanning the 20 pages covering it from the Bentley manual, anyone know where I could acquire parts for one of these systems? heres some stuff Ive come across:

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GüteAndTite
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anyone know where to find parts?
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never heard of it and still trying to figure out how it works... What's the story on it?
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KillerTux
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saxomat was not that popular because manual transmission was still preferred in Europe and the Saxomat stole quite a bit of horsepower in order to run. It was never sold in the US, only in Europe. By 1968, VW imported the transmission under the name AutoStick, it is the same basic idea with a few changes like the brake pedal was enlarged and the ATF container was moved to under the engine. The parts are hard to come by, got to look around on ebay.de and other foreign sites.
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KillerTux wrote:
By 1968, VW imported the transmission under the name AutoStick, it is the same basic idea with a few changes like the brake pedal was enlarged and the ATF container was moved to under the engine.


You mean an ATF tank was added. Saxomat, being a centrifugal roller clutch, did not need any. Autostick, having a torque converter, did.
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GüteAndTite
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KillerTux wrote:
Saxomat was not that popular because manual transmission was still preferred in Europe and the Saxomat stole quite a bit of horsepower in order to run. It was never sold in the US, only in Europe. By 1968, VW imported the transmission under the name AutoStick, it is the same basic idea with a few changes like the brake pedal was enlarged and the ATF container was moved to under the engine. The parts are hard to come by, got to look around on ebay.de and other foreign sites.


the saxomat robbed no power, once moving and it engaged, it was jus the same as a regular trans, the trans is a 4 speed wether equipped with saxomat clutch system or a regular clutch. the is NO ATF CONTAINER WITH SAXOMAT- there is with an auto stick which has a torque converter and is only a 3 speed trans. you are confusing the two. saxomat was not made after 67! please look at the diagrams I posted above- there is a vacuum container (see the round one INSIDE THE ENGINE COMPARTMENT??? - THERE IS NO TORRUE CONVERTER OR ATF)
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GüteAndTite
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

glutamodo wrote:
KillerTux wrote:
By 1968, VW imported the transmission under the name AutoStick, it is the same basic idea with a few changes like the brake pedal was enlarged and the ATF container was moved to under the engine.


You mean an ATF tank was added. Saxomat, being a centrifugal roller clutch, did not need any. Autostick, having a torque converter, did.


you are quite correct!! the saxomat used weights and a slip plate to mesh and move, once the engine was at a higher speed, the car was engaged, the clutch was still operated like normal but instead operated by the shifter. you could hold the shifter into a gear and the points would hold the clutch open, once you released it would engage
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Hammarlund
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds pretty easy to operate:

"To begin driving:

-Put the car in first gear
-Release the handbrake
-Gently depress the gas pedal
-The automatic clutch engages gently and the car goes smoothly forward.

On level streets the car can also be started in second gear."

It sounds like it's pretty important to have the handbrake on anytime the car is idling in gear, especially when the engine is cold:

"When the motor hasn't warmed up yet and is idling, and the handbreak is not applied, it is possible for the car to begin moving as soon as one puts it in gear."

Yikes! I guess this is because this device is engaged by centrifugal force, and the choke makes the engine idle faster when cold?

It is interesting to note that these devices were commonly seen on French cars, also. I'm not sure about France, but driver's license candidates in Germany were required not only to demonstrate the practical aspects of shifting a standard transmission, but to be able to explain the theory, so this was not simply a way for German teenagers to get out of learning to drive a standard.
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Last edited by Hammarlund on Tue May 03, 2011 7:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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VOLKSWAGNUT
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Semi/Automatic "clutch" ATV's use a similar roller hub much like the SAXOMAT flywheel.
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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 9:41 am    Post subject: Re: SAXOMAT Automatic Clutch 1961-1967 - NOT Autostick Shift Reply with quote

guteandtite wrote:
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Sorry, this is off-topic, but after decades of seeing stickshift (and even automatic) VWs, this photo just makes me laugh!
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Snort
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a friend in High School that drove a Saab 95 (wagon) with a Saxomat and the three cylinder 2 cycle engine. His car had a switch on it that could engage and disengage the Saxomat, and of course it also had a clutch pedal for when it was disengaged.
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Jeckler
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hammarlund wrote:
It sounds like it's pretty important to have the handbrake on anytime the car is idling in gear, especially when the engine is cold:

"When the motor hasn't warmed up yet and is idling, and the handbreak is not applied, it is possible for the car to begin moving as soon as one puts it in gear."

Yikes! I guess this is because this device is engaged by centrifugal force, and the choke makes the engine idle faster when cold?


Just about all cars with an automatic tranmission are the same way, possibly more so since it doesn't matter if the car is warm or cold.
It doesn't have to be the handbrake, I'm sure the footbrake would suffice.
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GüteAndTite
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

do you guys have any more pictures to add here? would love to learn more about the saxomat, Im hoping to find one for my car
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Considering how rare it is in the US, and that this is a USA-centric Forum, I'm guessing you won't find a whole lot more than you already have. Have you searched or inquired at any of the European VW enthusiast boards?

I know I never knew anything about it until the Bentley manual came out in 1990 or so. I do believe that a handful of changes over the years are listed in a couple of sections in the Progressive Refinements book though.

-Andy
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GüteAndTite
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

heres the shifter for this set up, just picked it up the other day its in awesome shape, now i need to find the rest of the set up!

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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 7:33 am    Post subject: SAXOMAT Automatic Clutch 1961-1967 - NOT Autostick Shift Reply with quote

Glad you like it!
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GüteAndTite
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=462533
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I, for one, am eager to see how this project turns out. The internet makes it possible to find these sorts of things, but this is definitely going to be a challenge... Good luck!
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GüteAndTite
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spectre6000 wrote:
I, for one, am eager to see how this project turns out. The internet makes it possible to find these sorts of things, but this is definitely going to be a challenge... Good luck!


yes it will be a challenge,
some prior challenges that were daunting but dont face up to this one are

single wheel trailer- check
pre B2 eberspacher - check
complete early a/c - check
tonneau cover with side clips and buckle receivers- check
bosch nipple fogs-check
original door panels and seat upholstery-check
58-59 front fenders-check
74mm porsche crank-check
complete circle top fender flag poles-check

but i think these will be challenges

complete saxomat- help!
huls seat recliners-help
58-64 convertible decklid trim-help
glovebox divider-help
air conditioning RANCO pressure switches-help!
screw terminal 58-60 convertible dome light-screw terminal-help!
large style hella fan fare horns-help
hella blue tip turn signal arm-help
swf glass square glass washer bottle-help
verified original 58 correct tool kit
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glutamodo Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just stumbled on this while looking for something else and didn't think I'd seen it in your list of literature above, so thought I'd mention it - I think it's similar to some of that German language stuff above, but in English:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/looklisten_8.php
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