are these bergmann engines good engines?

mackyboy1893

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1160187

Would be going into a 73 beetle.[/img]

Stripped66 · Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:19 am Post subject:

NO!
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Dale M. · Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:19 am Post subject:

Use "search" function and use BERGMAN as search criteria.

Dale
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

spectre6000 · Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:24 am Post subject:

Based purely on the photos, I don't know they're worth that price. For starters, having an EMPI logo so proudly displayed on the air filters combined with my personal experiences with anything that had an EMPI logo on it does not instill much confidence. The Porsche-style shrouds have some pretty significant and inconsistent gaps around the exhaust ports there on the front. Additionally, it's been empirically proven that the Porsche-style shrouds do not cool anywhere near as well as stock shrouds and lack any thermostat system. The linkage doesn't look like it's been set up terribly well (the rods are at some pretty extreme angles when they should be totally vertical). Serpentine belts put a bit too much pressure on the alternator and crank bearings. This is based purely on photos and not on experience, so take it for what it's worth. They may be just fine for all I know. I wouldn't both with them, but that's me.
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Jason Hopper

-'58 German Market Deluxe Beetle (in progress)
-'84 M1009 CUCV
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"Buy the best, cry once." -Gene Berg
"A cheap man will always buy the cheapest thing available, and then buys another one hoping for a better result, and then spends the rest of his life in misery complaining about it. A thrifty man will buy a good part once and never think about it again." -RockCrusher
"Don't feed the Shitty Parts Monster!" -Me

mackyboy1893 · Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:29 am Post subject:

Ok different subject, but does anyone have idea what those wheels are in that pic of the bug in that link? They are sexy as hell. Must have them.

mark tucker · Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:34 am Post subject:

I tore into a burgerman 2387 a few months ago, what a mess,the heads were small valve heads with the seats seating on the back side of the biger instaled 40xsomethin valves.hemicut heads,replaced with cb cnc miniwedgeports. The crank looked nice,but had a lot of maching swarf/slivers/bendovers that should of been removed(fully counterweighted welded vw crank)and a few rod oil holes were bairly open to the orignal oil holes, so I had to do some portwork to the crank along with deburring&getting all the slivers/bendovers off it.then sent it to DPR for balancing,witch it needed.Cooler bypass blocked off,so all oil had to go through the 1 smaller gally,I added a bypass hole.I drilled the case for extra gally at the hyd lifters for better oil flow.Pistons were drilled in the dome for balancing,witch is dead wrong for balancing pistons.added light weight pins,1.1 rockers replaced with 1.4 for a total of .518 lift. totaly reworked the shroud system so it will work.
so for a good price if you dont mind tearing it appart and fixing it, not bad.oops forgot ,the brass used brass gear was cracked all the way through,the dist drive shaftgear was missing almost 3 teeth from rust,but looked new.pushrods tips not in straight,pushrod tubes had spacers on them and were squished as far as they could be squished and the seals were crying for relief as they were trying to escape.thats all I can recall at the monent.a real piece of work.

DarthWeber · Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:45 pm Post subject:

Contact (or PM) Paul (RockCrusher) at RC Enterprises in Parkesburg, PA, he'll take care of you.

BTW, those are Rader wheels, commonly available everywhere (at VW places).
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67Beetle2017 · Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:32 pm Post subject:

I only had experience with two Bergmann engines.

One was an 1835 built for a buddies T-3 We picked it up in San Marcos at the Bergmann facility. We installed that in a 67 sqbk with header and 42DCNF's. We put well over 50K of trouble free miles on that engine. It was a daily driver for 6 years. (1982-8 Cool

The second engine as a 2387. It was a full circle crank with hydraulic lifters. It was installed in a 70 Ghia with dual 45 dellortos. the only issue with that engine was it had to be diassembled for a noisy lifter. Bergmann fixed that and after that the vehilcle was daily drivenfor at least 4 years that I know. (1990-94)

I am not affiliated with Bergmann. Just relaying a couple of "real" experienced with his product.

I have heard the horror stories about these engines and do feel that your money would be better spent with a company that supports Samba and has an excellent customer review.

RockCrusher · Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:42 pm Post subject:

You see.....there's the rub, 67beetle.
Bergmann was a great engine builder with a solid reputation and then sold the business and the name to the guy in Oklahoma, and that's where things went way wrong. I have no doubt that the 2 engines you referenced were super builds and I'm glad for that. The same engines today would most likely turn into a nightmare. Now I say this while trying to live by the philosophy of NEVER badmouthing the competition. That is how strongly I feel about the rep of that guy that I would break my own ethical guideline. You have never seen me badmouth any other vendor since I joined this site and there are a few that come close to Bergmann's poor quality.

RC
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I will be happy to speak to anyone who has a serious inquiry (meaning real potential business for RC enterprises) or a parts order. Due to machining noise causing missed calls all calls will be returned promptly.

wompninja · Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:58 pm Post subject:

That's why you never name a company after yourself.
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mackyboy1893 · Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:55 pm Post subject:

What would you guys suggested for an engine company then? I want something that will bolt up to the stock tranny if possible. I need this to be as simple as possible.

DarthWeber · Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:08 pm Post subject:

REPOST

jfats808 · Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:10 pm Post subject:

Brothers, carcraft, steve tims, mofoco, CPR, RC enterprises , etc, etc, the list is long. Budget we ill be your main constraint.

Ahh yes PA. Rc would likely,be your best initial choice.
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mackyboy1893 · Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:12 pm Post subject:

bugnut68 · Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:14 pm Post subject:

RockCrusher · Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:37 pm Post subject:

SRP1 · Samba Member Joined: January 06, 2007 Posts: 4342

Cptn. Calzone · Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:22 pm Post subject: bergmann

I own a 2387 BB. that was saved from the trash bin, I purchased it outright as a turnkey in 2008, from Mr Bergmann who answers the phone and sells all of the jive and bullshit himself, from the Shawnee Okl. shop.I had heard he was a good guy in the past, definetly not my expierence with him.Claimed it was dyno run and tuned, we had to completly rejet it just to get it to start and run, then further carb work. Stay away, many good builders to choose from here on the Samba.
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67 912 Porsche Quintilla
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RockCrusher · Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:44 pm Post subject:

aircooled356 · Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:51 pm Post subject:

Stay away from the fast yellow ones.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

They don't last very long. Wink


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