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Ted2 Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2004 Posts: 246
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 4:58 am Post subject: Go Westy 2450cc or Subaru conversion? |
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Hi Everyone,
I'm considering an engine upgrade for our '87 Westy (auto trans).
What are thought on the Go Westy 2.4 vs the Subaru units.
Thanks |
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K9e1n4 Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2023 Posts: 9 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:29 am Post subject: Re: Go Westy 2450cc or Subaru conversion |
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Are you going to do that swap yourself?
With either engine choice you need a lot of skills and time to do so. If you are going to pay someone this is going to get very expensive quickly. Also the VW engine may have something in the warranty fine print that only a licensed mechanic can install it with proof or no warranty.
Dropping in a VW engine should be straightforward. Remove and replace. For the Subaru conversion a lot of research is needed.
Most people get a Subaru junker off Craigslist for parts. You will need the Subaru computer, wiring harness (big job!), relays, sensors, and lots of miscellaneous. I went to the junkyard and got all my parts. It is best to get a 2005 or earlier Subaru with the 2.5L. Pre 2005 don’t use the security ignition key and have a cable throttle as the Vanagon does. Newer Subarus you will need the key for the car otherwise the computer won’t let it start (complicates the wiring) and they have an electronic throttle which is more complicated.
As for the Subaru engine, a used one is probably going to have over 150K miles. Its a lot of work to do a conversion just to put in something that might be worn out soon.
I put in an imported JDM engine and converted it to USDM. Take off the JDM intake and sensors and replace them with USDM. Also the camshaft and driveshaft timing belt sprockets need to be changed to USDM. Do the timing belt and water pump at the same time. Its a great engine and runs like new.
Subaru engines have/had trouble with head gaskets, so if you have one out of the car it is worth changing the head gasket with the more robust turbo head gasket.
Everything you need adds up fast though. You have to figure out what everything is going to cost, the miscellaneous costs because you always need something else, and the hours and hours of work involved. Its a commitment because you can’t stop in the middle. The van isn’t worth much with half a conversion done.
I used vancafes kit. Its a great engine mount and exhaust system. I would look over their kits and ask them for the conversion installation manual. They sent me it before I ordered anything so I had a better idea of what I was getting into. Their kits sell out fast but get restocked pretty quick. _________________ 1965 Beetle
1973 914 2.0L
1974 Super Beetle Convertible
1981 Vanagon Westy with 2.5 Subaru conversion |
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K9e1n4 Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2023 Posts: 9 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:42 am Post subject: Re: Go Westy 2450cc or Subaru conversion |
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Good info here
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gxT1c46_snM&pp _________________ 1965 Beetle
1973 914 2.0L
1974 Super Beetle Convertible
1981 Vanagon Westy with 2.5 Subaru conversion |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16898 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 9:20 am Post subject: Re: Go Westy 2450cc or Subaru conversion? |
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i love my Subaru powered auto trans westy.
I would much rather buy a NEW shortblock from Subaru than ask a crappy design like the WBX to put up with more displacement.
Stock Subaru is 170(ish) horsepower. Not sure what the GW is rated at. _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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t3 kopf Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2012 Posts: 1115 Location: over by 'der
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 9:27 am Post subject: Re: Go Westy 2450cc or Subaru conversion? |
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Very subjective question. With the gowesty engines, some people will tell you it lasted a decade and still chugs along, some will tell you that it started burning oil and blew up in 500 miles and the warranty wasn't honored. With a subaru, some will tell you that it they DIY'd it and only spent 3k (Me for example) and that it still runs like a top. With the subaru, there is a lot of maintenance that you have to do to a used engine to make sure its gonna be reliable. You want to buy a used subaru car that you can actually test run and find it for as cheap as you can. Mine was a 95 legacy wagon that the owner had hit a tree with. I got it for 300 dollars. The problem with go westy stuff is that a lot of the time you end up at the mercy of GW for their one-off proprietary parts that they have cornered the market on. They can charge whatever they want for that stuff.
You can still buy new factory subaru short blocks. Not gonna happen with a WBX. _________________ '90 Carat w/ '95 phase 1 EJ22 OBD2 conversion |
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khughes Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2013 Posts: 747 Location: Phoenix AZ
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Go Westy 2450cc or Subaru conversion? |
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skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I would much rather buy a NEW shortblock from Subaru than ask a crappy design like the WBX to put up with more displacement. |
Not a Subaru guy, so can't opine on the original question, but if crate short blocks are still available, I'd go that route in a heartbeat if I were going to go Suby. Peace of mind... _________________ '86 Westy FAS GenV Turbo (Marvin) |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16898 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: Go Westy 2450cc or Subaru conversion? |
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khughes wrote: |
if crate short blocks are still available, I'd go that route in a heartbeat if I were going to go Suby. Peace of mind... |
they sure are
_________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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markswagen Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2018 Posts: 1041 Location: san diego
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: Go Westy 2450cc or Subaru conversion? |
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subaru all day long every day. _________________ markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.
619 201 0310 |
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khughes Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2013 Posts: 747 Location: Phoenix AZ
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: Go Westy 2450cc or Subaru conversion? |
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skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
khughes wrote: |
if crate short blocks are still available, I'd go that route in a heartbeat if I were going to go Suby. Peace of mind... |
they sure are |
Cool. Just out of curiosity, what kind of prices are we talking? _________________ '86 Westy FAS GenV Turbo (Marvin) |
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markswagen Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2018 Posts: 1041 Location: san diego
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Go Westy 2450cc or Subaru conversion? |
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not sure what year you would be looking for.
a quick evilbay search turned this up
https://www.ebay.com/itm/283620358336?epid=1901286...R7yRyL-_Yg
khughes wrote: |
Cool. Just out of curiosity, what kind of prices are we talking? |
_________________ markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.
619 201 0310 |
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therastavan Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2020 Posts: 81 Location: California
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Go Westy 2450cc or Subaru conversion? |
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For starters, you can't replace the original sound and feel of an original WBX design. The GoWesty design will cost you a lot less and is CARB legal if that is an issue for you. Plus you get a new engine that has no timing belts or chains vs a used belt driven Subaru. The original VW engine design is actually very reliable and dependable, the problem is that most people fall far short of the proper and simple maintenance required to keep these engines running well, specifically these 3 things which lead to catastrophic failure:
1. Failure to use phosphate free coolant and replacing it every 2 years.
2. Failure to change the oil often e.g. every 3K miles and with an OEM filter (these engines run hot and 5-7K mile drain intervals will ruin the engine)
3. Failure to change the automatic transmission fluid every 2 years and replacing the seals between the transmission and gearbox to prevent the oils from mixing
If you follow these 3 steps the VW engine will run reliably for years. |
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Crankey Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2004 Posts: 2659
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: Go Westy 2450cc or Subaru conversion? |
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Where are you and what's your budget ?
I did this
https://www.vanaru.com/
It's been over a year of daily driving now. In Oregon there's no sales tax I guess so I saved that money. Project came in as it was estimated. That estimate included the shop asking me to agree to a new rad and higher flow spigot gas tank. I also added refreshing the whole vapor bottle and hose system. So overall a bit more than just the swap.
Cost is determined by the shop and it's local economy.
Nice craftsmanship on all the parts in my opinion. I am a metal fabricator by trade.
Everything I got was really nicely put together by vanaru and the shop that installed the conversion.
All I can say is as a downside is you won't get assistance at just any ol' Subaru or Japanese car service shop if you can't diy everything.
Some will of course but others won't work on things that don't have a book to predict labor times etc. Why bother when they have predictable tasks coming in every day ?
Upside is you just pay the shop and wait for the call to come get it.. flawless 170 mile drive home for me. And maybe if you're easily distracted, giving the project to a shop means it'll get done in a reasonable timeframe and your driving again.
I bought the rad and gas tank myself and had them shipped to the shop just to save a little mark up I spose. That actually might have added up a little because I had to find the right tank and find the rad. I went.with Forst brand from heritage parts. Shop said it looked and fit like original Behr unit. No issues so far.
Anyway, good luck whatever you do ! |
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khughes Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2013 Posts: 747 Location: Phoenix AZ
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Go Westy 2450cc or Subaru conversion? |
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Oh, I'm not looking. I was just curious. And those sub $2500 prices are pretty attractive if I was looking at subies. I'd trust one a whole lot more than a rebuilt - one of the reasons I went the way I did! Thanks! _________________ '86 Westy FAS GenV Turbo (Marvin) |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16898 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:58 am Post subject: Re: Go Westy 2450cc or Subaru conversion? |
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khughes wrote: |
Cool. Just out of curiosity, what kind of prices are we talking? |
1900 buxx to my door is my price _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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mitch5 Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2019 Posts: 139 Location: phoenix
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:09 am Post subject: Re: Go Westy 2450cc or Subaru conversion? |
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Another plus for Subaru is the way more reliable fuel injection and electronics. Obd2 can make diagnostics a breeze for alot of issues. Additionally Subaru gaskets and belts can also be found at any major chain store.
If you are diy I think the design is far superior to the wbx in terms of sealing, gaskets and overall places the engine can fail. |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3816 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:19 am Post subject: Re: Go Westy 2450cc or Subaru conversion? |
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If you are strictly narrowing it down to original waterboxer vs subaru, I would consider Marco mansispeed rebuild along with his EFI.
I do love my Subaru EJ22 Phase 1 block, solid lifter performance built heads, along with 96 outback OBD2 intake/wiring harness.
I have found many NEW OEM sensors for my engine. And if not new, there are plenty used online ebay. I bought an eBay Subaru starter for $35 shipped. used mass airflow sensor - $30 shipped. used OEM Tribeca alternator - $30 shipped.
A "rebuilt" airflow meter for a digijet/digifant is going to run you a minimum $200. _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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oceanair Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2013 Posts: 720 Location: Victoria, BC
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: Go Westy 2450cc or Subaru conversion? |
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GoWesty with their EFI system -- that way you have a new engine that fits easily and a new system to ignite and fuel it. Simple and OBD2 _________________ 84 Vanagon Pop Top Conversion from Tin Top, 1970 Ghia - all sweet rides! Love em!
Previous: Green 72 Tin Top, White 72 Westy, Blue 64 Beetle, Yellow 71 Squareback, 2014 Jetta TDI Wagon - wish I could have them all back! |
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zerotofifty Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003 Posts: 1603
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 1:51 pm Post subject: Re: Go Westy 2450cc or Subaru conversion? |
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Go Westy has had issues with their big bore motors, research the issues. Id pick a subaru over the GoWesty. Go Westy tells you to run 60 weight oil to maintain oil pressure, whats with that?
Big power costs money.
You might be happy with a modest increase with slightly bigger motor like 2.2 liter, which can use all the stock VW injection stuff found on the 2.1 stock motor. You can save a bunch of coin doing that,
The GoWesty is just too customized I think, and there have been issues with that motor and their cutstomer service. I have had to deal with GoWesty customer service on other things, and was not impressed with their response. This was some years ago however.
Obtaining parts and repairs for a Subaru will be much less an issue over the life of the motor too.
But if you can live with a more modest 2.2 VW motor, that will be quite economical. and the parts are not specialized. just bigger pistons and cylinders.
You can get new heads with maybe slightly bigger valves, a bit more aggressive cam that is still smoggable and you are good to go, that is what I done after researching the GoWesty and subaru options. _________________ Give peace a chance. No American war with Russia! |
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SCM Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011 Posts: 3123 Location: Bozeman MT
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: Go Westy 2450cc or Subaru conversion? |
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oceanair wrote: |
GoWesty with their EFI system -- that way you have a new engine that fits easily and a new system to ignite and fuel it. Simple and OBD2 |
Yeah but GoWesty's EFI system is almost $3,500 and their 2.4L is $7,200. There's alot of options once you hit that price point.
I don't see where the 60wt oil requirement for the GoWesty motor is coming from. They spec'd 20/50wt (same as stock, IIRC) for my 2.3 when I bought it and that's still what their website is showing. I didn't see anything different for the 2.4.
My 2.3 runs great but it did start burning oil after about 20K miles. I honestly haven't done the math on it, and it seems to vary a lot, but I would roughly estimate half a quart every 600 miles. GW told me that was "within spec" to which I say BS, it didn't burn a drop up until that time.
I'm a little soured on Suby motors since my Crosstrek needed a new short block at 8,000 miles. But that's more of an emotional issue since those motors aren't swap candidates. _________________ '91 Westfalia GL Automatic (GTA "Turbo" Rebuild w/Peloquin) and 2.3L GoWesty Engine |
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calsurf Samba Member
Joined: June 28, 2022 Posts: 131 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: Go Westy 2450cc or Subaru conversion? |
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SCM wrote: |
My 2.3 runs great but it did start burning oil after about 20K miles. I honestly haven't done the math on it, and it seems to vary a lot, but I would roughly estimate half a quart every 600 miles. GW told me that was "within spec" to which I say BS, it didn't burn a drop up until that time.
I'm a little soured on Suby motors since my Crosstrek needed a new short block at 8,000 miles. But that's more of an emotional issue since those motors aren't swap candidates. |
My 2013 Subi is still chugging along, about to crest 100K. Not the torquiest motor by far, but ok to move a little Crosstrek around. As far as a motor for my Westy, a Subi 2.5 would be sweet. That Honda swap looks interesting as well. Sure hope somebody has something for us CARB'd hostaged people ASAP. |
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