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Racerrojo
Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2006
Posts: 827
Location: ALBUQUERQUE 87120
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 Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:15 pm Post subject: Out of fuel! |
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87 westy with the ej 25 engine swap I sold it to this older lady and
she ran on to empty and after that will take about 6 gallons of fuel in the tank for it to start. I have driven this van down to fumes before and never had this problem.
The lines to the tank where not clogged (ran a wire, I replaced the x over pipe and some fuel lines on the tank. it cured the full tank leaks but didn't help the fuel starvation.
I cant find any drawing or diagrams that show the inside of the tank, it seems to me that what ever pick up the fuel inside it is not sitting at the bottom.
I really like to fix this for her, Any ideas?
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Tight is tight... too tight is expensive!!!!
Too many vans and mostly all projects  |
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jsmitch11
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2011
Posts: 337
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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Nothing "picks up fuel" in 2wd or 4wd gas tanks. The gas is pulled through the bottom nipple on the tank by the fuel pump.
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1984 Vanagon Westfalia Syncro Hightop
1986 Vanagon Syncro(RIP)
1989 Vanagon Wolfsburg Whitestar Edition(RIP)
My Van syncro conversion/restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=535730&highlight=black+diamond |
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crazyvwvanman
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 10371
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:18 pm Post subject: Re: out off Fuel! |
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The fuel pickup tube inside is attached to the bottom middle of the tank. Then the tube rises high before going down lower to the back where the outlet hose attaches. If you run the tank too low, air gets into the highest part of the pickup tube. You have to put quite a bit of fuel into the empty tank to fill that raised part. Otherwise the fuel pump can have a hard time getting primed again because it doesn't like to pump air.
Just tell her, DON"T run out of gas all the time!
Mark
| Racerrojo wrote: |
87 westy with the ej 25 engine swap I sold it to this older lady and
she ran on to empty and after that will take about 6 gallons of fuel in the tank for it to start. I have driven this van down to fumes before and never had this problem.
The lines to the tank where not clogged (ran a wire, I replaced the x over pipe and some fuel lines on the tank. it cured the full tank leaks but didn't help the fuel starvation.
I cant find any drawing or diagrams that show the inside of the tank, it seems to me that what ever pick up the fuel inside it is not sitting at the bottom.
I really like to fix this for her, Any ideas? |
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RCB
Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2005
Posts: 4143
Location: San Francisco-Bay Area
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:02 am Post subject: |
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| Has the fuel pump burnt out |
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xoo00oox
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2010
Posts: 2724
Location: East Nassau, NY
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:27 am Post subject: Re: out off Fuel! |
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| Racerrojo wrote: |
87 westy with the ej 25 engine swap I sold it to this older lady and
she ran on to empty and after that will take about 6 gallons of fuel in the tank for it to start. I have driven this van down to fumes before and never had this problem.
The lines to the tank where not clogged (ran a wire, I replaced the x over pipe and some fuel lines on the tank. it cured the full tank leaks but didn't help the fuel starvation.
I cant find any drawing or diagrams that show the inside of the tank, it seems to me that what ever pick up the fuel inside it is not sitting at the bottom.
I really like to fix this for her, Any ideas? |
I have seen this a couple of times, The metal line inside the tank pulls in air unless there is a good amount of fuel in the tank. I think a new tank will be needed. |
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Racerrojo
Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2006
Posts: 827
Location: ALBUQUERQUE 87120
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:49 am Post subject: |
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I was afraid of that.
whees a good sourse for fuel tanks? I seen some at Amazon.com fairly pricef.
_________________
Tight is tight... too tight is expensive!!!!
Too many vans and mostly all projects |
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Perales
Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2007
Posts: 2046
Location: Nova Scotia
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:36 am Post subject: |
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Check with Mike at RMW and VanCafe, they seem to be the closest to you.
IIRC, there is a thread about the Amazon tanks not being a perfect fit  |
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SCM
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 3365
Location: Bozeman MT
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:14 am Post subject: Re: out off Fuel! |
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| xoo00oox wrote: |
| I think a new tank will be needed. |
Why would a new tank be needed just because of an air bubble in the pickup line? Can't he fill the tank then syphon from the outlet to remove the bubble and get the flow re-established? New tanks don't come pre-filled with gas. How come we don't hear of similar problems after someone has installed a new tank?
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'91 Westfalia GL Automatic (GTA "Turbo" Rebuild w/Peloquin) and 2.3L GoWesty Engine |
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DAIZEE
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2010
Posts: 7552
Location: Greater Toronto Area Ontario West Side
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:23 am Post subject: |
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in sucking air, the tank or parts of it might have been sucked in? Shias, I have a history of running out of gas but I'm pretty careful with the diesel. I also don't want to run on low fuel until I get to see my tank. Could be lots of residuals, rust, etc...
Nobody has said this to you but you are very kind to take care of this matter. All older women appreciate you. Why not have her pay for the tank and you do the install. That sounds like a deal to me and after all you didn't run it dry but you are a kind gentleman to do the labor!!!
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'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold) |
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Ahwahnee
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 10218
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:30 am Post subject: Re: out off Fuel! |
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| crazyvwvanman wrote: |
| Just tell her, DON"T run out of gas... |
Last week I had the tank drained to change the fuel lines on each side of the pump. Since I had gas in three 1 gallon containers that I was adding back one at a time I took photos of the gas gauge after each:
Of course that image is only valid for me as there is certainly some variability among gauges but it is handy to have a reference when you're low on gas in, say, middle-of-nowhere West Texas. |
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Racerrojo
Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2006
Posts: 827
Location: ALBUQUERQUE 87120
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| DAIZEE wrote: |
in sucking air, the tank or parts of it might have been sucked in? Shias, I have a history of running out of gas but I'm pretty careful with the diesel. I also don't want to run on low fuel until I get to see my tank. Could be lots of residuals, rust, etc...
Nobody has said this to you but you are very kind to take care of this matter. All older women appreciate you. Why not have her pay for the tank and you do the install. That sounds like a deal to me and after all you didn't run it dry but you are a kind gentleman to do the labor!!! |
I sure apreciate the kind words. Once I narrow down the causes I don't mind fixing it for her.
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Tight is tight... too tight is expensive!!!!
Too many vans and mostly all projects |
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randywebb
Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2005
Posts: 3815
Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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Ahwahnee - what year is your Van?
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1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans. |
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Ahwahnee
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 10218
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| randywebb wrote: |
| Ahwahnee - what year is your Van? |
An 84 (no tach). |
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DAIZEE
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2010
Posts: 7552
Location: Greater Toronto Area Ontario West Side
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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at least yoou have a fuel gauge, I have to go by distance, I carry 3L of diesel tho and have bought a hand pump. When I get Scooby back I'm going to drive drive drive. Maybe between Fergus and Bus Fusion or right after Bus Fusion, I'll drop the tank and do all that needs to be done. Hopefully that'll be the last of the BIG jobs. Who has the best deals on fuel tanks that is either in Canada or ships to Canada? Guess I'll need a reading device and whatever else.
_________________
'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold) |
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xoo00oox
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2010
Posts: 2724
Location: East Nassau, NY
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: out off Fuel! |
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| SCM wrote: |
| Racerrojo wrote: |
| I think a new tank will be needed. |
Why would a new tank be needed just because of an air bubble in the pickup line? Can't he fill the tank then syphon from the outlet to remove the bubble and get the flow re-established? New tanks don't come pre-filled with gas. How come we don't hear of similar problems after someone has installed a new tank? |
Any air in the pick up would have gotten worked out in the first minute or so of the pump running. The fuel tank pick up can develop a problem that lets it pull air in with the fuel unless there is a lot of fuel in the tank. The pick up in side the tank pull the fuel from the bottom center and then goes upward and back down to the nipple where the fuel line is attached to the tank. I believe it may be caused by a tack weld for a bracket that supports the pick up tube cracking through and allowing air to get pulled in unless it is below the fuel line. This is probably the reason why she ran out of fuel. |
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crazyvwvanman
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 10371
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: out off Fuel! |
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The pump won't run continuously until the engine starts. The engine won't start until there is fuel pressure. The pump does run during cranking, so enough cranking may get the pump primed, or not.
Mark
| xoo00oox wrote: |
Any air in the pick up would have gotten worked out in the first minute or so of the pump running. ......... |
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gbrandt
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 590
Location: Calgary
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| DAIZEE wrote: |
| at least yoou have a fuel gauge, I have to go by distance, I carry 3L of diesel tho and have bought a hand pump. When I get Scooby back I'm going to drive drive drive. Maybe between Fergus and Bus Fusion or right after Bus Fusion, I'll drop the tank and do all that needs to be done. Hopefully that'll be the last of the BIG jobs. Who has the best deals on fuel tanks that is either in Canada or ships to Canada? Guess I'll need a reading device and whatever else. |
I found this tank in Canada http://ecat.spectrapremium.com/ProduitsVehicules/vehicule/1286524 You have to find a local distributor as Spectra does not sell to the public. In my case is was a Napa Auto Parts dealer that could get it for me. I forgot what I paid for it though...not too expensive, but not cheap either.
Tank is good quality, has been in my van for 3 years now with no issues and it still looks good.
Gregor
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We've driven in 49 countries and 5 continents to date
Canada to Argentina and back, 2015 to 2017.
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DAIZEE
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2010
Posts: 7552
Location: Greater Toronto Area Ontario West Side
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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Hey thanks for that info! Will compare prices.
Only talk gas tanks and no prices. Can I use a gas tank for diesel. I'm assuming that the tank presently on (that's never had a working fuel gauge in my ownership) is the original gas tank.Is there any difference in
- actual tank
- level reader/sender
- hoses, fittings
- parts/connectors I need?
_________________
'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold) |
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Racerrojo
Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2006
Posts: 827
Location: ALBUQUERQUE 87120
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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Bummer! she took it to a shop and they replaced the fuel pump.
Guess what! she still can run it with less than 1/3 left. I'll shop around for a good gas tank
How about this one and free shipping?
http://www.amazon.com/Spectra-Premium-VW3C-Volkswa...;carId=001
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Tight is tight... too tight is expensive!!!!
Too many vans and mostly all projects |
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